No more 3dice for me :)!!

[kimss]

With a proprietary software program, couldn't they adjust payouts and outcomes as they see fit? This is my burning question for the day!

The answer is yes! And easily aswell, like many landbased video slots you could in real-time skew the payout by pre-programmed cycles. The system can easily ignore certain wins (typical jackpot) and save it for later, it could control payout in picking rounds, freespins and whatever. With proprietary systems you do have all the control.

By using compartmentalization you could easily guard industry secrets, as the real culprit here is how are the strains of numbers generated! Are they really random or do are they influenced by something.

I mention compartmentalization since in the RTG thread one of the developers was actively in the thread defending the RNG, however as a strategy designer of the games. He doesn't work with the RNG, the RNG was already in place as I understood from his posts when they implemented their slots. Again - we just have to assume the RNG is correct.

Do Vegas Video Slots get markeded as random really, or as entertainment machines with a certain expected payout? I believe the problem online arrived since the machines are supposedly random - being there should be no influence.

The operaters also have shot their own foot since they also say that demonimations and coin size and line numbers do not affect the spins!

Excuse me - they are really insulting my intelligence!

This fact alone prooves for an intelligent brain the system is balanced, which in itself is ok as you get expected payout in the end - but it is not random! They must relabel their product!

PubJoe.
He comes in a thread about a Casino he has never played at and declares how fair online gaming is and anyone who suspects and says otherwise is a whinger and of course he sets himself apart from "all these gamblers"

LOL! Good observation Rusty! Cui bono? Now why would a person jump into an argument to protect one of the involved parts, and also choosing the part he doesn't know at all?

Yo! Rusty, I belive such behaviour can be cooked down into one familiar word : random! LOL!

[kimss]

I got stuck in this article, a very interesting read on the "open parts" of the casino business. Gives you alot of insight in atleast the white-version of it, and how it should be if we all had our way - the utopia of slots

http://www.camh.net/egambling/issue1...er_horbay.html

First of the whole article is very interesting, and I have to take all the references one by one to delve into. But as a few highlights just to get into atleast some controversy,

Take a look at the part with condensed reels and legalized near misses. And what about the comfertable "valid" argument:

According to the gambling industry, slot machines are no longer programmed to create near misses

What excactly does that mean, according to? Is that a truth, is it a lie? Is it 1/100 or 99/100, does such a statement have merit at all?

To be honest, according to the vikings the world is flat!

Also, since we have court cases aswell as references clearly this was the norm. Anyways - the systems are proprietary so we never know what happends today do we?

I also enjoy the Fox News way of putting their agenda on the screen by formulating their "Some people say [insert whatever you like]".

So while the likes of me and Rusty are accused of pulling bits and pieces and creating our own truth to fit our cause - we are working against arguments like "according to...". Seems the coin do have 2 sides!

*back to read rest of the article, interesting read*

[tim5ny]

"According to the gambling industry, slot machines are no longer programmed to create near misses "

I never get excited over near-misses in the least bit...never have. It's as far from a win as any other losing spin as far as I'm concerned.

[kimss]

"According to the gambling industry, slot machines are no longer programmed to create near misses "

I never get excited over near-misses in the least bit...never have. It's as far from a win as any other losing spin as far as I'm concerned.

Technically that is true, either it is a match or it is not. However you must admit near misses do trigger the excitement and adrenalin while playing, especially when the near miss is at reel 5... What about the slowdown spinanimation when missing the feature symbol... Ohh the agony... Come on come on come on... The perception of having reels fuels the near miss, humans are not computers and we do not live in binary world,

Knowing this, I totally agree with you though! It is wasting valuable efforts and energy getting upset of something that gives you nothing - near slot misses!

[tim5ny]

Ok..... If I have 4 and am waiting for the 5th to come in...that's different! I'm on the edge of my seat then, but I thought you meant near-misses that end up paying nothing.

[mercy]

Congrats on your win Timmy

[KasinoKing]

I believe you have forgotten all about compulsive gamblers KK, at least I hope so and that you do not do it deliberately. Why do a drunken man keep drinking? Why do people use drugs!

I'm not sure I understand that comment to be honest.
I never forget about compulsive gamblers; I am definitely one myself and all I ever do on forums & my websites is try to help them - not to stop gambling, but to stop losing.

I wish to respond with some corrections & confirmations to many other points you made, but rather than doing lot's of quote boxes I'm just going to turn the things you posted blue!

Kimss: Anyway - bottom line is. When you are in a winning streak in MG you feel it, you feel the win is comming - and you can even switch slot and Kazam! you get the win there instead, how crazy is that! But you need to do some $18 and $20 spinning my friend to experience what we are talking about!

Me spinning at $18 or $20...! Now I know you're crazy!



.... and using every possible bonus ... and affiliate bonuses ...

I don't use every possible bonus - normally only between 5 to 8 per month.
There simply isn't enough time for me to do more, though I would like to!

I don't know what you mean by 'affiliate bonus' - I just get the exact same bonuses & terms as any other player.



On the other hand, I have to pick on KK a little since he always boasts about winning and all is fair! If you take all bonuses available during a year, you at least double your bankroll. Hovewer he is only up like 1K in the last 3 years?

I try not to boast too much about it, but that is quite hard sometimes. Put yourself in my shoes; If you were winning month after month would you keep totally quiet about it?
You certainly don't keep quiet about losing month after month!


In reality he lost a fortune, however - given the bonuses and doubling the bankroll - he managed to survive without loosing to to much of it in the process due to strick rules and timely use of excel spreadsheets! So - what does he win without doing all the bonuses? He is a looser - just as the rest of us playing the slots! The card players however, there at least skill is revarded!

I am not, never have been and never will be a looser!
What I am is a loser! (When are you going to start spelling that right!)

Seriously though, you are quite right - without the bonuses I am a loser.
I'm not even going to confirm it by checking all my stats - I'm fairly sure I've lost more than I've deposited (ignoring bonuses) every year since I started.

I don't agree about card players being skilled & slots players not though. Both games require a lot of luck and a little bit of strategy if the player is to be profitable.

Bonuses are definitely the key to my success - both in giving me a head start and most importantly; a stopping point.


Also, is it really worth it investing all these hundreds of hours for $333 a year? So I would argue the statement being succesful is a little meaningless for me, but then again I am one of those high rollers looking for a big hit which I can accually buy something for,
Winning 1K should be a good night - not a succesful 3 year period, come on! He is a slot surviver, not a slot champion!

Well I'm confused again! Where on earth did you pluck those figures from?

For the record, these are my yearly results (nett profit):-
2001: +$576 (May-Dec)
2002: +$5,174
2003: +$4,059
2004: +$1,705
2005: +$5,008 (Nearly all slots play from this year onwards)
2006: +$4,339
2007: +$8,427
2008: +$8,184 (So far: Jan-Sep)

(Detailed monthly break-down available here).

Yes it is very time consuming. I reckon I play on average 2hrs every day (probably on the conservative side!), so that's 730hrs per year; take 2006 for an example - that works out at $5.94/hr max.
A lot of people probably wouldn't even get out of bed for that!
But this isn't a job - it's a hobby I enjoy - and I get paid for having fun! (Most of the time )

Now you can call that successful or not - you are entitled to your opinion.
Personally I see it as very successful because for the 20 years before that my yearly net profit was -£1,000's, -£1,000's, -£1,000's, -£1,000's, etc...

I have a 'system' I use and I'm very happy with it. I don't try to "ram it down peoples throats" (at least - I hope not!); it's all detailed on my website & I'm always happy to give people advice and explain my methods on the forums too. I just tell people what I do; I don't make any promises or guarantees, but then I'm not selling anything. If other people want to try it - good luck to them - I hope it works for them too!



(hope i'm not offending anyone with this rant here - it's hard to make a point without mentioning names)

Well I'm certainly not offended (if you meant me!). I like reading your posts, comments & opinions. I don't necessarily agree with them but they're usually very interesting.


I am an addict - I crave to spin - I will always miss the game - the rush - it's in my blood - and it's in all of you people in the meister forum aswell - rigged or not - I need my fix, just like you do! Some of us play harder, most of us loose our heads and chase losses and reverse the withdrawals. Hey - we are gamblers! I know some people have a hard time admitting it for themselves, but the fact remains. What I need to do is to keep my deposits low so I can live with the cost of my nemesis! Either that or booze and women,

I'm with most of that!
Even I chase losses sometimes, but I have never reversed a withdrawal.
I agree about the booze.. but not the women. With a slot machine you can play with it, have fun then walk away - you don't have to take it out to dinner and start a conversation with it afterwards!


In the end - nothing matters anyway! We will all be dead in a 100 years!

I wish!
If I'm very lucky I might make another 40...
Kinda depressing thought that - I think I'll go play some slots!!!

[kimss]

What can I say KK, a very nice read. Made me smile a few times there, and yes I was referring to you. However I see I did a few mistakes in my assumptions which you clarified quite nicely!

Regarding the 'affiliate bonus' a missassumption by me again, I was sure your webpage had affiliate banners which you cashed in (no problems with that), my bad.

Seems I am not doing my homework to good, Shame on me!

For the record, these are my yearly results (nett profit):-
2001: +$576 (May-Dec)
2002: +$5,174
2003: +$4,059
2004: +$1,705
2005: +$5,008 (Nearly all slots play from this year onwards)
2006: +$4,339
2007: +$8,427
2008: +$8,184 (So far: Jan-Sep)

There I go for not checking the facts, those wins are infact kinda good! If I were to NOT reverse and to STOP i could pretty much state the same, however I have a long way in mind and willpower to accomplish this, :/

[KasinoKing]

Regarding the 'affiliate bonus' a missassumption by me again, I was sure your webpage had affiliate banners which you cashed in (no problems with that), my bad.

Yes my site has lots of affiliate banners, and I do make money that way too.
But I never talk about that on the forum. When I say I'm winning or losing money I'm only talking about as a normal player depositing & playing with my own money (plus the bonuses of course!) in the casinos.
The two are entirely separate things.
KK

[Alexishot69]

just noticed a wee thing on your BIG post regarding help for slots players..now im not saying i need help as such more in need of a SERIOUS lesson on how to play them cos i have a serious issue with non stop losing...any help woul dbbe appreciated...lol..and hey $5.94 an hour id settle for sadly my deposits even low rolling at about 25 $ per hour... tried 32red again tonight and wham just str8 thruso any advice would be great


ps if i have derailed here please feel free to gimme a smacked ass