When casino pays winnings to VISA card

**Fleur-De-Lis** · 23rd September 2008, 12:45 PM

Hello,
I do hope someone here will be able to help. What is the mechanism that casino payment processors are using when paying back to customer's Visa Card?

I'll explain. I won some money at a certain RTG casino. the only option was to withdraw winnings back to the Card. In the past, I used different credit and debit cards to fund this casino's account, but at the time I requested withdrawal I had only one registered card on file.
I expected payment to appear on my card yesterday or today, so I kept checking. Today morning, I contacted casino's Live Help and asked for payment status. The news were a bit of a shock, when casino's rep told me that sent funds to card ending at *0055. As it happens, this debit card was long cancelled, and a new one issued by bank.

The old card was successfully unregistered, and the new one, *0065, registered on my casino's account. A month or so ago. Naturally, I expected to see incoming payment on my new card *0065...

I am not going to question or complain about casino's actions here, that's separate matter. I want to ask those of you (may be there are accountants, bank workers, people who deal with payments, cards etc) - how it works?

If payment sent to a card that no longer exists - what happens next? Is it still credited to bank account associated with this card. Does it get refused? Sent back to merchant? Or else? Also, is it similar procedure for Credit Cards (that are 'stay alone') and Debit cards (tied to a certain bank account, in my case)?

Thank you so much for help and all/any info.

**ssgtsnelly** · 23rd September 2008, 01:13 PM

Fleur i had this same issue about 8 months ago at Littlewoods i think it was, im not sure how it works where your from but in the UK the debit card is just a link to your bank account so the money actually gos into the bank account and not actually against the card, i know certain UK banks have the last 8 digits of the main number as your account number so your card number would never really change so i dont think theres a huge amount of meaning to the 16 digit card number unlike a credit card.

When i did it at Littlewoods the funds still ended up in the right account as the bank should have the facility to redirect it as the expired card number should still be on your records and as i say your account number and sort code wont have changed so they should do it that way.

hope you get it sorted buddy

**Fleur-De-Lis** · 23rd September 2008, 01:17 PM

Thank you so much for the info - I do hope Cyprus banks are establsihed the same way as UK ones... in this case there is some hope

Alterntive option casino offered (cancel payment, wait one month, pay to other card) would be just too nightmarish to consider

**Fleur-De-Lis** · 23rd September 2008, 04:13 PM

One more question: what is an ARN number and can it be of any use for me?

**Vegasbum** · 23rd September 2008, 04:23 PM

ARN = 'Acquirer's Reference Number'

Here is a thread that might help you:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....html?t=558808

**vinylweatherman** · 24th September 2008, 01:31 AM

This method of paying withdrawals seems to be more common now. Oddly enough, from the same casinos that state it was IMPOSSIBLE to do so due to VISA policies.
This has now been shown to be bullshite in the majority of cases, as VISA have NEVER had a policy of banning casino refunds, it has been down to indicidual VISA issuers to decide how they would treat such transactions. Where such transactions are deemed ILLEGAL however, such as in the USA, it is generally impossible for individual banks to KNOWINGLY accept refunds and deposits of a gambling nature.

VISA refunds are often referred to as "OCT" by the casinos, and this is what would appear against the transaction in, for example, Microgaming's Playcheck.

Issuing withdrawals onto closed card accounts IS A PROBLEM for us players, and something casinos NEED TO UNDERSTAND. Just because many deposits have come from a particular VISA card does NOT mean the card will remain available "forever". When players DEREGISTER a card, it is probably with good reason, and this is normally because something has changed with the card, such as the issuer reissuing it, they or the cardholder closing the account, or the card having been reported lost/stolen, in which case it is ALWAYS reissued with a new number.

While it should be possible to retrieve an amount credited to a closed card account, it takes time and effort, and is not necessarily straightforward.

I am in the UK, and MANY casinos issue withdrawals back to VISA cards I have used to deposit. While they supposedly have rules that govern this, it seems a complete lottery as to where a withdrawal will end up, and this can add to the inconvenience of players who might be expecting the money to appear in one location, and it never does.

Something odd has recently happened to me with Ruby Fortune. Their rule is that a withdrawal will be refunded back to the "primary deposit method used since the last withdrawal". Recently, I deposited with one card, and withdrew. I later used a NEW card (at that particular casino), for a one day only VIP offer. My withdrawal was processed back to the NEW card, however, this broke their rules, as I had deposited over 1K with the old card, and a mere �200 with the new, so it went back to my SECONDARY method.
This is not a problem, as they sent me a statement telling me where it went, so I know where to look. HOWEVER, I used to use a SHELL VISA card at online casinos, and then SHELL took the contract away from RBS and gave it to Citibank. This gives me a CLOSED card account, and it is "VERY closed" indeed!!!! It was NEVER linked to any bank account, and was a branded affiliate credit card. Had they somehow decided to refund against this card, I would have had to wait a while for it to be sorted out.

This kind of problem is going to deter players from using their cards at casinos, although this is generally a good idea for many who have access (and funds available) in eWallet accounts.

Players who like to play regularly can do without having a long wait for winnings that they have probably already lined up their next casino/promotion/tournament for, and that includes me

**Fleur-De-Lis** · 24th September 2008, 09:48 PM

Just wanted to thank 32Red Casino's rep who read my OP and gave me the most informative and clear answer via PM as to how such refunds work, and what are the possible scenarios for me. It was very professional message, and very kind thing to do. THANK YOU!

**gerilege** · 25th September 2008, 02:05 PM

Haven't read all the other post.
You will get it, it is still credited to the bank account associated with this card. Even if it was cancelled, stolen, etc a long time ago. This summer I got credited on a card which was cancelled a year and a half ago.

**funky_seagull** · 25th September 2008, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by ssgtsnelly

Fleur i had this same issue about 8 months ago at Littlewoods i think it was, im not sure how it works where your from but in the UK the debit card is just a link to your bank account so the money actually gos into the bank account and not actually against the card, i know certain UK banks have the last 8 digits of the main number as your account number so your card number would never really change so i dont think theres a huge amount of meaning to the 16 digit card number unlike a credit card.

When i did it at Littlewoods the funds still ended up in the right account as the bank should have the facility to redirect it as the expired card number should still be on your records and as i say your account number and sort code wont have changed so they should do it that way.

hope you get it sorted buddy

I had this problem with intercasino. My original debit card had been stolen and I updated my details with the replacement card. However the ecash system insisted I withdraw to the stolen card details.

I rang up customer support and they advised it should be ok, and the money will get redirected to my bank account even though money was withdrawn to a stolen card and I have a different one now.

This didn't happen. The money ended up in a suspended account with my bank. And it took me over 3 months to get the money out of the suspended account and into my bank account. The whole process was frustrating, time consuming and I had to keep going down to my local branch every 5 days to see what the progress was and I really thought I would never get the money. But my bank finally stopped fobbing me off and moved the money into the correct account.

However I stopped playing at intercasino as a consequence.

A few days ago I got a phonecall from intercasino asking me why I don't play there anymore. I told them about the above, and just like that they deleted the old card from the system and now my withdrawals go to the replacement card.

I think I must be unlucky and was the poor soul who had to experience what it is like when this system goes wrong....

If I ever meet a twisted lowlife who steals peoples debit/credit card details I will transform into Mr. Hyde and rip their heads off.... I hate them intensely for making the rest of society suffer like this...

**Webzcas** · 26th September 2008, 03:36 PM

In my experience, casinos only "refund" back to a card the total amount deposited over a 6 month period, to cover their backs concerning any rogue chargebacks that they then may face.

The rest of any winnings balance is then sent to an ewallet such as Neteller or wired into your nominated bank account or a cheque is sent in the mail.