Is RTG fixed, rigged, whatever?

[RobWin]

So let me ask a silly question now....

Does everyone still believe that RTG Casino Software is Truly Random and the casino operators cannot tweak with it ??

How many more stories are out there like Laurie's that the folks are too embarrassed to admit...

If they have the balls to extort money from a big depositor like Laurie I really don't think that anyone could convince me that the operators cannot also tweak with the software too since there is obviously, absolutely no oversight whatsoever from RTG themselves !!

[aka23]

Originally Posted by RobWin

So let me ask a silly question now....

Does everyone still believe that RTG Casino Software is Truly Random and the casino operators cannot tweak with it ??

How many more stories are out there like Laurie's that the folks are too embarrassed to admit...[/B]

Operators can adjust the payouts of RTG games, often choosing from one of 3 pre-set levels. However, this has little to do with whether RTG is random or not. I also do not consider Palace of Chance extorting players evidence of non-random software. Instead it only shows that RTG is licensing their software to some rogue operations, likely anyone who pays the fees.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by aka23

Operators can adjust the payouts of RTG games, often choosing from one of 3 pre-set levels. However, this has little to do with whether RTG is random or not. I also do not consider Palace of Chance extorting players evidence of non-random software. Instead it only shows that RTG is licensing their software to some rogue operations, likely anyone who pays the fees.

I agree that RTG selling their software to operators who they know rip the players off does not in itself prove the slots are not random but it does prove they are quite happy to let the players be ripped off with their software.

As for this mythical Three set payouts, where does this information come from?

RTG is the answer, so we need to be willing to believe that a software provider that assumes no responsibility for its product and is in business with known crooks, a software provider that turns its back on scammed players, a software provider that incorporates into the software a means of altering payouts is in fact imposing restrictions on Casinos as to what levels of payout they can set and these can be no lower than 93%.

The question as to how random the slots are is moot if we believe the payouts can be altered by the Casinos.
Given all the evidence there is only one logical conclusion IMO.

Consider this thread that details a RTG Casino that cheats its customers out of their money.An RTG Casino that uses bribes and extortion as part of its business plan and what is the reaction of the software provider?
Where are the RTG representatives telling us how much they are shocked and dismayed by this?
Why are they not telling us they are no longer in business with POC and all other rogue RTG ?
Why is there no one here apologising profusely and explaining what they are going to do to ensure this never happens again?

So anyone who wants to believe RTG games are fair and post that belief here should have a good answer to all the above questions first.

Aka I am not saying you are promoting this idea I am just using your post, which I essentially agree with, as a lead in.

[winbig]

And who's to say that these RTG rogues don't have programmers working for them to reverse engineer the software to exploit it to their advantage?

[RobWin]

Originally Posted by aka23

Operators can adjust the payouts of RTG games, often choosing from one of 3 pre-set levels. However, this has little to do with whether RTG is random or not. I also do not consider Palace of Chance extorting players evidence of non-random software. Instead it only shows that RTG is licensing their software to some rogue operations, likely anyone who pays the fees.

See Winbig's and Rustys posts above, my sentiments are the same...

[babs7262]

Maybe the ONLY true and honest way to find out how RTG's work is to buy one. Its a shame, I bet if we put all the money together that this whole group has gambled, we could of bought, find out the truth, made a profit and sell it by now

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by babs7262

Maybe the ONLY true and honest way to find out how RTG's work is to buy one. Its a shame, I bet if we put all the money together that this whole group has gambled, we could of bought, find out the truth, made a profit and sell it by now

Made a profit using RTG, perish the thought!
Where are your standards Babs

A great idea would be for a Casino owned by a players syndicate though.

I would happily design the slots, I already have some 5 reel completed.

We would need a good graphics artist a database and networking expert a good web designer etc but it is certainly achievable.
The hard part is finding enough people with the proper qualifications and will.

The logistics are difficult but could be overcome.
Spread the word and who knows

[aka23]

Originally Posted by Rusty

As for this mythical Three set payouts, where does this information come from?

It's based on RTG marketing documentation as well as posts from RTG operators on this site. I list specific numbers on my site. For slots, I believe it is a choice of 95%, 97.5% and a lower one (probably 92.5%). There are other games without set payout option and instead a choice of rule differences. For example, in blackjack RTG operators can choose any # of decks from 1 to 255 and can make those changes on the fly. However, a reputable casino probably wouldn't change the game rules without first informing the players.

Originally Posted by Rusty

Consider this thread that details a RTG Casino that cheats its customers out of their money.An RTG Casino that uses bribes and extortion as part of its business plan and what is the reaction of the software provider?
Where are the RTG representatives telling us how much they are shocked and dismayed by this?
Why are they not telling us they are no longer in business with POC and all other rogue RTG ?
Why is there no one here apologising profusely and explaining what they are going to do to ensure this never happens again?

So anyone who wants to believe RTG games are fair and post that belief here should have a good answer to all the above questions first.

RTG seems to have a hands off approach and let casino operators do whatever they want once they've bought the software. Most of us probably think this is a poor business decision, but making a poor business decision about software licensing doesn't mean their software is rigged. There are also reputable casinos that use RTG like Bodog, Club World, and iNetBet. Would these reputable groups choose to use the SW, if they knew it was rigged?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by aka23

It's based on RTG marketing documentation as well as posts from RTG operators on this site. I list specific numbers on my site. For slots, I believe it is a choice of 95%, 97.5% and a lower one (probably 92.5%). There are other games without set payout option and instead a choice of rule differences. For example, in blackjack RTG operators can choose any # of decks from 1 to 255 and can make those changes on the fly. However, a reputable casino probably wouldn't change the game rules without first informing the players.



RTG seems to have a hands off approach and let casino operators do whatever they want once they've bought the software. Most of us probably think this is a poor business decision, but making a poor business decision about software licensing doesn't mean their software is rigged. There are also reputable casinos that use RTG like Bodog, Club World, and iNetBet. Would these reputable groups choose to use the SW, if they knew it was rigged?

I don't think our opinions are that far apart.
The question for me is why did these Casinos choose RTG?

Also, as I have said the question of whether the software is "rigged" or manipulated is moot if the Casinos can alter the payouts.
You choose to trust a source with a very poor track records as far as players are concerned, I choose not to, that is where we differ.

[RobWin]

Thanks Bryan for setting up this thread separate from the POC thread, I should have done that originally instead of posting this first thread post in there...