Is RTG fixed, rigged, whatever?

[RobWin]

It's based on RTG marketing documentation as well as posts from RTG operators on this site. I list specific numbers on my site. For slots, I believe it is a choice of 95%, 97.5% and a lower one (probably 92.5%). There are other games without set payout option and instead a choice of rule differences. For example, in blackjack RTG operators can choose any # of decks from 1 to 255 and can make those changes on the fly. However, a reputable casino probably wouldn't change the game rules without first informing the players.



RTG seems to have a hands off approach and let casino operators do whatever they want once they've bought the software. Most of us probably think this is a poor business decision, but making a poor business decision about software licensing doesn't mean their software is rigged. There are also reputable casinos that use RTG like Bodog, Club World, and iNetBet. Would these reputable groups choose to use the SW, if they knew it was rigged?

Yea, that's my point exactly and the one that scares the hell out of me...but like an idiot I still play on the RTG platform...

[Casinomeister]

Operators can adjust the payouts of RTG games, often choosing from one of 3 pre-set levels. However, this has little to do with whether RTG is random or not. I also do not consider Palace of Chance extorting players evidence of non-random software. Instead it only shows that RTG is licensing their software to some rogue operations, likely anyone who pays the fees.

That's pretty much it. The software has been scrutinized for years by many third parties, and there hasn't been a case yet of a truly rigged experience.

It's the operators who fail - not the software.

[Rusty]

I don't know who these Third parties are or what their tests involve or by what criteria they judge whether software is rigged or not so I can not comment on that specific point but there is evidence of manipulation via weighting if you are prepared to look for it.

I have made this point over and over that just because something may have a random outcome it does not mean that it has the proper relative probability of outcome.

That is to say you can have a random outcome of any Ten numbers from 1 to 10 but equally you can make any of those Ten numbers more likely to be the outcome or continually alter the likelihood of outcome while still maintaining random results.

This means the problem is that dynamic weighting is very difficult to prove and if the system is sophisticated enough I would say impossible but fortunately RTG software is not that sophisticated.

I have been luckier at RTG Casinos than I have any right to have been but only when I have first joined after that I have been unluckier than I have any right to be.

That means experiencing over expected returns on just about every slot for Tens of hours, many thousands of spins followed by well below expected returns on every slot for Tens of Hours.

It means experiencing features and retriggers frequently and multiple retriggers often, followed by infrequent features and no retriggers at all over long periods.

It means not seeing the first Wild symbol or scatter symbol appear anything like a normal amount, maybe 10% of average over long periods.

When I experience these things over and over at every RTG Casino I have to believe the evidence is that payouts can and are changed and this is done through weighting, I don't need a Third party I have my own eyes, statistics and experiences.

I will not use the term rigged because this implies the outcome is in no way random but the term manipulated certainly fits the bill.

It is the operators that fail but the software provider is responsible to who they provide the software to, in that respect it is also the software that fails whether you agree it can be manipulated or not.

If you give a thug a gun and they go off and use it to Rob someone and you then take no responsibility for your actions then I am going to have a pretty low opinion of you and question your integrity.

[RobWin]

[QUOTE]

I don't know who these Third parties are or what their tests involve or by what criteria they judge whether software is rigged or not so I can not comment on that specific point but there is evidence of manipulation via weighting if you are prepared to look for it.

I have made this point over and over that just because something may have a random outcome it does not mean that it has the proper relative probability of outcome.

That is to say you can have a random outcome of any Ten numbers from 1 to 10 but equally you can make any of those Ten numbers more likely to be the outcome or continually alter the likelihood of outcome while still maintaining random results.

This means the problem is that dynamic weighting is very difficult to prove and if the system is sophisticated enough I would say impossible but fortunately RTG software is not that sophisticated.

I have been luckier at RTG Casinos than I have any right to have been but only when I have first joined after that I have been unluckier than I have any right to be.

That means experiencing over expected returns on just about every slot for Tens of hours, many thousands of spins followed by well below expected returns on every slot for Tens of Hours.

It means experiencing features and retriggers frequently and multiple retriggers often, followed by infrequent features and no retriggers at all over long periods.

It means not seeing the first Wild symbol or scatter symbol appear anything like a normal amount, maybe 10% of average over long periods.

When I experience these things over and over at every RTG Casino I have to believe the evidence is that payouts can and are changed and this is done through weighting, I don't need a Third party I have my own eyes, statistics and experiences.

I will not use the term rigged because this implies the outcome is in no way random but the term manipulated certainly fits the bill.

Yep...

It is the operators that fail but the software provider is responsible to who they provide the software to, in that respect it is also the software that fails whether you agree it can be manipulated or not.

I agree, there is no other way to look at it...where is the oversight, has there EVER been a rep from RTG (and I don't mean one that worked or works for a casino) come on here and dispute any of our claims and thoughts, I can't ever remember one as long as I have been on here...

If you give a thug a gun and they go off and use it to Rob someone and you then take no responsibility for your actions then I am going to have a pretty low opinion of you and question your integrity.

Rusty, did you have to capitalize Rob...

[Rusty]

Rusty, did you have to capitalize Rob...



I did didn't I.
I would say freudian slip but I know you're a top man

I just tried the free chip at One of the new Rivals and had a good run, I am pretty sure I could of cashed out after making the WR.
The trouble is that the software always behaves the same way and I could never play at Rival seriously because I know after every win streak you are going to go long periods of total nothing.
It is common to play a slot and go well over 100 spins without a win which is crazy and again it is obvious weighting exists here also but as far as I know all Rival Casinos are responsible and payout and as far as I know maintain payout percentage which makes it a lot more palatable.

[aka23]

I agree, there is no other way to look at it...where is the oversight, has there EVER been a rep from RTG (and I don't mean one that worked or works for a casino) come on here and dispute any of our claims and thoughts, I can't ever remember one as long as I have been on here...

The reps that post on this forum are generally affiliated with casinos, as one would expect. However, there have been a couple RTG programmers who weren't connected to casinos. For example, in the thread at http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post175953 a former RTG programmer disputes similar claims.

[babs7262]

LOL Rusty ,

I just love you sometimes!!I mean that in the nicest way. We are so predictable and funny sometimes. Your on this thread like most of us closing some accounts and talking about SW being rigged and in the same breath (so to speak) you have a lil side note...btw "I tried free chip at the new rival..."

Its just so funny. If we were talking about restaurants , I wonder how many times we would go back to a place that made us sick (including me!)

[Rusty]

LOL Rusty ,

I just love you sometimes!!I mean that in the nicest way. We are so predictable and funny sometimes. Your on this thread like most of us closing some accounts and talking about SW being rigged and in the same breath (so to speak) you have a lil side note...btw "I tried free chip at the new rival..."

Its just so funny. If we were talking about restaurants , I wonder how many times we would go back to a place that made us sick (including me!)

If it was free?
I am a skinflint so probably plenty.

By the way weighted does not mean the game is rigged or payouts are not as advertised.
Think of it like an automated throttle on a car, if you are speeding it will lift off the Gas and slow you down, if you are going too slow then it will put the pedal to the metal=feature bonanza
Just don't expect not to crash and burn after every speed rush
ps
I am not stating anything that is not obvious or observable by everyone.
For example I went 140 spins with one winning spin (X3bet)
Everyone else must experience these streaks.
That is not normal variance even for slots like Rivals which put a higher percentage return into the bonus rounds than other software and it is not an isolated incident, it is quite common.
I am not saying it is rigged, I won on a free chip for heavens sake!
Try to understand what I am saying.

[babs7262]

If it was free?
I am a skinflint so probably plenty.

By the way weighted does not mean the game is rigged or payouts are not as advertised.
Think of it like an automated throttle on a car, if you are speeding it will lift off the Gas and slow you down, if you are going too slow then it will put the pedal to the metal=feature bonanza
Just don't expect not to crash and burn after every speed rush
ps
I am not stating anything that is not obvious or observable by everyone.
For example I went 140 spins with one winning spin (X3bet)
Everyone else must experience these streaks.
That is not normal variance even for slots like Rivals which put a higher percentage return into the bonus rounds than other software and it is not an isolated incident, it is quite common.
I am not saying it is rigged, I won on a free chip for heavens sake!
Try to understand what I am saying.

I do because I do the same thing, a free chip is a free chip right? I hope you didnt take that as an insult, it was just cute i like you

[Rusty]

I do because I do the same thing, a free chip is a free chip right? I hope you didnt take that as an insult, it was just cute i like you

There is no accounting for taste but I like to be liked and love to be loved, so it is a wonder I can be so uncompromising.
I like you too