BetVoyager's Bonus Terms - acceptable?

[SlotMonster]

Hello everyone!
I haven't posted much (and haven't played, unfortunately) for few weeks, mostly because I was overloaded with my work. But there's one simply question I want to ask: today I opened BetVoyager's site in order to have some fun with Roulette, and I found that they added Welcome Bonus (100%, up to 50 euros, deposit via Moneybookers, no WR, can be used in any game, bonus will remain on your account after cashout). Sounds good, but I'm a bit confused by their T&C. Can you please help me to determine, whether or not there is any pitfalls? See T&C below (bold in text is mine):

Bonus Terms
The Bonus is a sum of money that is placed in a playing account in addition to the sum deposited. The bonus sum can only be used in games.

Conditions for Receiving a Bonus
The Bonus is given during a player’s first deposit using the Moneybookers system and is equal to 100% of the deposit, but cannot exceed €50.
Each player can only receive a Bonus once, regardless of the number of playing accounts the player has.
Bonuses are only given when the player has provided full and accurate information during registration.
The Bonus is paid only when the account into which the deposit was made belongs to the player making the deposit. The account information for BetVoyager and Moneybookers must be consistent.

Playing with the Bonus
The Bonus can be used to play any game at the casino, but it cannot be used at other projects in the BetCruise portal.
The Bonus cannot be converted into real money and can only be spent in game play. Winnings can be withdrawn at any time.
The Bonus will be used for bets only once the player’s other funds have been exhausted.
The Bonus is recalculated whenever the player deposits additional funds into his account. Please see the example below for a clarification of how this principle works.
After the player receives a Bonus, he cannot play for money on BetLiner.com or BetRaiser.com. Once the Bonus is exhausted, the player’s access to all projects is restored. If the player wants to play on the other sites while he still has bonus money in his account, he can register an additional playing account and use the new account to play.
The player can find out the current size of his Bonus by clicking here.
Please Note
The Bonus that a player receives is only good for making bets, and cannot be removed from the playing account.
Any decisions connected with bonus promotions are the exclusive province of BetVoyager. BetVoyager Casino retains the right to change, amend or discontinue any special offers at any point for any reason without advance warning. If a player violates the above rules, the administration of BetCruise retains the right to nullify the results of any games and cancel the Bonus.

Examples
The player has deposited €80 and received a Bonus of €50, giving him a total of €130 in his account.

Version 1. All winnings by the player from this sum can be removed from his account, except for the initial Bonus of €50.

Version 2. If the player loses €100, then he would have €30 remaining of his Bonus. In order to win money that can be withdrawn, the player must first win €20 in bonus funds. However, if the player makes another deposit via any available payment system, the Bonus will be recalculated (paragraph 4 in “Playing with the Bonus”). After the deposit, the Bonus will be €30 and any winnings above this sum can be withdrawn.

Any help will be appreciated.

[gerilege]

Originally Posted by SlotMonster

Hello everyone!
I haven't posted much (and haven't played, unfortunately) for few weeks, mostly because I was overloaded with my work. But there's one simply question I want to ask: today I opened BetVoyager's site in order to have some fun with Roulette, and I found that they added Welcome Bonus (100%, up to 50 euros, deposit via Moneybookers, no WR, can be used in any game, bonus will remain on your account after cashout). Sounds good, but I'm a bit confused by their T&C. Can you please help me to determine, whether or not there is any pitfalls? See T&C below (bold in text is mine):



Any help will be appreciated.

No pitfalls, you can never cash out the bonus, only your funds and winnings. When your balance drops down below the original bonus amount, and you make the deposit, then bonus is recalculated, so if you deposit 50, get 50, lose 80, and you only have 20 remaining, and you make a new deposit, then you still have 20 in bonus money, but not 50 as you originally had, so you can withdraw anything above 20. But if you do not make a deposit at that time, you can only withdraw what is above 50, the original amount. With other words a new deposit nullifies that part of the bonus which you have already lost. In fact this is beneficial for the player.

Because some circumstances I would not like to detail here I predict that they will either discontinue this promotion soon or bust.

[winbig]

This raises so many red flags, imo.

1: I have NEVER seen a casino offer a SUB that didn't have WR. (At least in the past 5+ years)
2: 99.9999% of casinos will NOT let you deposit if you have an active bonus in your account. You must meet the WR or bust out before depositing again.
3: Again, in recent times, I have NEVER seen a casino leave a sticky bonus in your account after cashing out.

In this case, 1+2+3 = 7.

Moral of the story: Something doesn't add up. With terms such as this (if the casino is on the up and up), they're just begging to get taken to the cleaners.

[SlotMonster]

Thanks for reply, Win

1: I have NEVER seen a casino offer a SUB that didn't have WR. (At least in the past 5+ years)

Well, I think it's not a big deal. It's just "what all other do" thing.

2: 99.9999% of casinos will NOT let you deposit if you have an active bonus in your account. You must meet the WR or bust out before depositing again.

So, no WR --> no restrictions in depositing.

3: Again, in recent times, I have NEVER seen a casino leave a sticky bonus in your account after cashing out.

Me too, and it's quite a new feature, but it doesnt meam "bad feature", isn't it? Maybe it's just because they're new and going to bring something new into online-gambling industry?

[winbig]

Originally Posted by SlotMonster

Thank for reply, Win


Well, I think it's not a big deal. It's just "what all other do" thing.


So, no WR --> no restrictions in depositing.


Me too, and it's quite a new feature, but it doesnt meam "bad feature", isn't it? Maybe it's just because they're new and going to bring something new into online-gambling industry?

Ahhh ok...actually, it sounds on the up and up seeing as how there are in fact WR tied to the SUB...

And yes, I really hope that it's a new "feature" that gains momentum, and spreads around to other casinos. I would definitely start taking sticky bonuses if they stayed in your account after a cashout

[Jufo]

I played this bonus two days ago and there are no pitfalls. The promo is as good as it sounds. The bonus remains on your account after withdrawal and you can keep playing and withdrawing winnings until your balance goes to zero. They also paid back to Moneybookers instantly

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by winbig

This raises so many red flags, imo.

1: I have NEVER seen a casino offer a SUB that didn't have WR. (At least in the past 5+ years)
2: 99.9999% of casinos will NOT let you deposit if you have an active bonus in your account. You must meet the WR or bust out before depositing again.
3: Again, in recent times, I have NEVER seen a casino leave a sticky bonus in your account after cashing out.

In this case, 1+2+3 = 7.

Moral of the story: Something doesn't add up. With terms such as this (if the casino is on the up and up), they're just begging to get taken to the cleaners.

1. Vegas Towers has a SUB with no WR. (It is a phantom bonus.)

2. Huh? I cannot think of a casino that won't let you deposit. Maybe there are some at the dodgier end of the market that try to trip you up with such rules.

3. The definition of a sticky bonus is exactly that it stays in your account. If it is removed when you make a withdrawal, it is a phantom bonus.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

1. Vegas Towers has a SUB with no WR. (It is a phantom bonus.)

2. Huh? I cannot think of a casino that won't let you deposit. Maybe there are some at the dodgier end of the market that try to trip you up with such rules.

3. The definition of a sticky bonus is exactly that it stays in your account. If it is removed when you make a withdrawal, it is a phantom bonus.

1: Surprising
2: I've never seen a casino (that I've played at) where I could deposit again before fulfilling the WR (or bust) on the current bonus I was playing.
3: Fine, but again, I've never saw anything besides a phantom bonus

4: Not saying that #1,2,3 don't exist; just that I've never seen them.

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by winbig

2: I've never seen a casino (that I've played at) where I could deposit again before fulfilling the WR (or bust) on the current bonus I was playing.

Intercasino, Ladbrokes, Virgin, just to name a few, will even let you claim a bonus, not just deposit before meeting the WR for a previous bonus. Can you name one that won't even let you deposit?

[winbig]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

Intercasino, Ladbrokes, Virgin, just to name a few, will even let you claim a bonus, not just deposit before meeting the WR for a previous bonus. Can you name one that won't even let you deposit?

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just relaying my experiences over the years.

And it's painfully obvious that the reason that I haven't seen this because of the fact that the casinos you named don't accept USA players.