Microgaming.. WTH

**debbiek** · 24th May 2008, 07:16 PM

Personally, I don't think the payout problem is limited to MG. It's also RTG for sure and probably Rival too based on recent posts I've read. I'm not sure if it's limited to software where US players go, but it's very obvious.

I really think the only way to find out the real truth behind the changing online situation is to get information from a high level "insider" as to how their operations have changed and their business philosophy. While it seems reasonable to say that a casino cannot profit if they're deposits are down, maybe they offset that with reduced costs/manpower needed to process withdrawls. Also, if 85% of the customers that deposit lose all their money, the casino is guaranteed profit from these depositors. They've limited the bonus round payouts dramatically, so this shields them from any significant outlay there.

There are always diehard gamblers that go back to see if anything has improved and also a percentage of new players just discovering online gambling. Basically, that's what the casino needs to keep those deposits rolling in. They basically have the entire US market as "potential losers". Why not offer good bonuses to attract new players and keep payouts very very low to insure profit?

This is just my insight, but it seems the online payout percentage has dropped dramatically across most software providers in US play. I don't think it's too much about luck anymore, just about terrible odds and a changing business philosophy capitalizing on limited marketplace competition.

**cslate** · 24th May 2008, 07:59 PM

sounds like your calling us morons.........just kidding

**jas2587** · 24th May 2008, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by cslate

ok...

wow touched a nerve!

I didnt think i called anyone a moron.

but now i will

your the moron

Sorry for stating the obvious

I think you are way out of line
this was uncalled for

mo�ron �� (m�rn, mr-) KEY �

NOUN:

A stupid person; a dolt.
Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

Cindy

**cslate** · 24th May 2008, 09:04 PM

lol....

I was just stating the truth.....

Thanks for the definition though....I wasnt sure what babs was calling everyone.

**james01** · 24th May 2008, 11:02 PM

Yes, thanks. I thought I'd been called a Mormon, and you know, that just wouldn't do. I've never even been to Utah!

**brianzz** · 25th May 2008, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

You are still not getting it. The figures in the ecogra report are expressed as a percentage of the total amount wagered. The hold is calculated as a percentage of chips bought or amount deposited into machines. See also http://wizardofodds.com/houseedge, scroll down to see the definition of hold.

so you're saying the ecogra reports aren't saying that they paid out 96% of the money played across the tables? or that the gaming report aren't saying they paid out 87% of money played across the tables? Whether you say hold or win or whatever, it's the amount of money/profit that was kept from the total wagers on tables for that month and I think those numbers have been skewed by online casinos.

**GrandMaster** · 25th May 2008, 12:37 PM

The ecogra figure is not the hold percentage. An example:
Let's say players deposit $25000, wager $100000, and lose $5000. In the ecogra report this would show as 95% returned to players, whereas a B&M casino would consider it as a hold of 20%.

**brianzz** · 25th May 2008, 05:11 PM

If that's what you want to think, more power to you but I'm not buying these ecogra reports. They're worse than the PWC reports which pretty much said word for word that you could purchase what your report wanted to say.

**GrandMaster** · 25th May 2008, 10:28 PM

It is not what I "want to think", but what the figures mean. If you don't believe them, that's a different matter, but you should be clear about what you don't believe in.

**retlaw** · 26th May 2008, 08:32 AM

I do believe the ecogra figures, but even with a payout of 98% it is possible to loose a lot of money.
It is a misleading figure,certainly for new online players ,because not everyone knows how it has been calculated.
The hold percentage of B&M casino's are more real, because they are related to the money which has been lost.
Winning or loosing money : that's the most important (at least for me)