TIV

[kakata]

.....many weird things are going around lately......

[anniemac]

After reading the last 4-5 of the posts, my eyes have been opened a whole lot wider. I, like most players I am sure, felt that online casinos had to have the same available funds for payouts that B&M casinos did. They certainly have about the same cash inflow per overhead that B&M casinos do, actually probably not near as large overhead as a land casino. In my tiny little brain I think I had this vision of a casino in cyberland just like the local Harrahs.

Kinda scary!!!

[heatherad]

Thanks Hippo, and you also make a very valid point there too about the WINNING Player actually being the one that is giving the line of credit to the casino when the casino has to pay out in installments and I'm not just referring to TIV but any online casino that needs to do this type of payment arrangement !!

Ask them to tack on accrued interest on the money being held back
I was told from two seperate casinos their reasoning for paying out so much per week/month. One was because they run on a budget and the other was to stay under the radar.
I think if a player can deposit their money with no problems, then they should be paid(in full) pronto with no problems. And yes, I know this is NOT how it works.
Just my 1/2 cent worth.

[Cesar]

Sorry, I don't want to extend this thread more, but I didn't want to open a new one, bother John again or received another "technical problem" email from CS , so just a question:

Has anyone still have pending withdrawals from them or are you getting payments?

I still have 2 MB pending withdrawals and no more info. Thanks

[NASHVEGAS]

Sorry, I don't want to extend this thread more

Cesar, it was/is going to probably happen anyway as CM's post that I said I would clarify still needs to happen as I assured it would. I realize most will be redundant and wish this thread also would cease for both those of you that continue to have payment issues as well as myself and the select few that question the intent of/and past business practices and ethics of TIV and subsequent consequences on account of the facts that are public...... Unfortunately, not all of the facts can be made public on the forum. (and sure this works both ways leaving players the ability to manipulate the truth in addition to their agendas on the public forum but the same can be said in certain cases for online casinos including their managers,reps.,and affilates also....I am always willing to make all my private correspondence available if necessary to CM at this point in order to support what I stated throughout this thread but also what I have stated privately).....I will proceed as my first sentence states above pursuant to CM's questions and the clarifications necessary with only that can be made public at this time.... It may be another day or two before I make the post as referenced above.

[NASHVEGAS]

Could someone please post a quick synopsis (no more than two paragraphs at three sentences each) about what this thread is all about? Twenty pages is a hell of a lot of reading for a Friday afternoon

Will do my best but two paragraphs with 3 sentences on a 20 plus page thread with 5000 plus views would be difficult so I will just try to clarify your post but you still may want to read the thread in entirety when you have time!

What I am understanding from the first six pages is that This is Vegas has a clause in their FAQ that states players can only cash out 2k per day up to 4k per week, yet this is not in their terms and conditions. Correct?

Actually, there was no clause when I opened my account in January 2008 and as of a couple days ago there is still no clause in FAQ pursuant to withdrawal/cashout amounts and disbursement restrictions. I make reference to an actual edited excerpt (to address your question only) from Post#49 of this thread:

"Here you go BB and RW et al and I will find the other withdrawal contradictory term (which I had John clarify ftr)

"The minimum withdrawal amount for all account holders at the casino is $25.
Players can withdraw up to $2000 per day and up to $4000 per week."
www.thisisvegas.com/promoterms.php

NOTE:This is the term John had amended by removing the $8000/month and also the term John references in his posts on this forum announcing the change....not sure why it is on the promo. page of TIV....maybe more confusion!!!

ADDITION#1:Here is the contradictory term and for whatever reason it is on the ABOUT US page of the TIV site via the official Full Terms and Conditions link (must click on the same colored word "here" in the link or one may believe this is a dead link) found at the bottom of the Promo's TandC's page......I checked on this contradictory term long ago as I hoped it was literally true and I could withdrawal $2k per day or $14K per week as it implies.....since when did $2K per day stated clearly as that translate into $4k per week,............. when the obvious terms contradiction caused me much confusion, I PMed John for the gospel....anybody could really be confused by these 2 different withdrawal terms (with some good coachspeak maybe someone would argue they are one in the same, I am 99% sure the courts would beg to differ) so at least one would hope CS would be accurate.... I have read too many threads where the player may have been wronged cause they did not read the TandC's and even here one could read,be confused, go to CS as RW did to get clarification in writing which is partially incorrect....I am jus sayin!!!!!!!!!!!,LOL"

"PRIZES & WINNINGS

The casino reserves the right to request documentation for the purpose of identity verification prior to granting any deposits with or withdrawals from the player's casino account.

A fee may be charged to the player to cover payments made by bank wire or check.

A player is permitted to withdraw a maximum of $2000 USD of their winnings per 24 hour period.

Players winning a sizeable amount deemed to be worthy of publicity by the casino agree to make themselves available for any event arranged by BC in relation to that win. BC will at all times respect the player's privacy in this event.

The casino reserves the right to use your first name and first initial of your surname (e.g. John S.) in any casino announcement regarding winning results."

www.thisisvegas.com/about.php

I also understand that some players can have their accounts flushed upon request. Yes?

Only up to amount of $2000/per day or $4000/per week whichever is greater. Nowhere I have ever found this policy/term in the terms up to this day. John gave inaccurate answers as late as last week in regards to removing/flushing. I make reference to an actual excerpt from Post#209 of this thread:

"At the bottom is a PM to TIV/John on 2-1-08 expressing my concern of the so-called not in writing policy/issue (the concern specifically has been bolded in the PM below), then for whatever reason as I post I never got a response to this issue. I brought it up again via another PM after no response, still no specific response, then I directed TIV/John via PM to several threads in regards to the so-called policy/issue and never a direct response even when John did post in one of the threads soon after me. The bolded words below were never directly responded to via any means by John unless he can prove otherwise but as I continued to question, CS responded once by phone later in January and once by chat prior to this thread in April (Yes, I know and agree at some point I have to take responsibility but I disagree on the first big win as I was only allowed to remove/flush only $4K per week,hello, from my casino cash account balance and as I state below I did not care when they paid me eventhough I will prove for those that say read the TandC's, TIV was not even paying according to their TandC's as they had/have two contradictory terms which was also brought to their attention but I did not press the disbursement TandC issue as a show of good faith and keep in mind I had won over/under $40K plus at this time so I wanted to be diplomatic for common sense,lol, reasons) :
_____________________________________________


From : NASHVEGAS
To : thisisvegas
Date : 2008-02-01 08:58
Title : HELLO
---------------------------------------------------
John,
I am confused (since the software in the cashiers section has been amended along with the monthly limit restriction). I really do not know when and how much I can withdrawal. Maybe you could clarify per my post!..Also sent all documents yesterday and if you could confirm receipt I would appreciate...Lastly can my balance simply be removed from my account and then you can just disburse the funds per the daily,weekly and monthly amount restrictions... I previously mentioned I would like to at least know the $ amounts per day,week, and month. Just so you know the software is no longer blocking withdrawals and appears to be allowing up to $3000 daily..Anyway the simpliest thing to do would be to remove my balance and then disburse per whatever your $ amount and time restrictions are...Thanks for your attention to these issues and hopefully you can clear up my confusion."

On 4-28-08 in this thread, John officially agrees to flush/remove all player's casino cash account balances in full and not limit to $2000/day or $4000/week on account of this thread per the following excerpt in Post#215:

"We will now flush full amounts but will pay based on the terms. We are doing this now due to player and affiliate complaints and recommendations. This thread certainly has helped. Before we would not do this."

I respond via the following edited excerpt in Post#217:

"This should have been somewhere in writing as it is/was a hidden policy. In fact, you did not even know what this policy actually was as recently as a couple of days ago. Obviously by removing it now, it must be as unreasonable policy as I maintained and who would have wanted to find out about this hidden policy initially during their way to a $40K plus win. You are now fully aware of the initial confusion and consequences of this hidden policy. Upon my second large win and thereafter I accept full responsibility for any consequences as I knew the policy although I thought it was always wrong. TIV must feel the same now which is a good thing for your future players."


The above sentence said, somethings are not what they appear to be. This can be elaborated on via PM if you desire.

Some players also suspect that the casino intentionally sits on these winnings hoping that the player plays these back into the casino. Yes?

Based on the following excerpt from John in Post#215 as well as other statements,actions,etc. from almost day 1 some of which are included in this thread but elsewhere including the forum,e-mails,PM's, I know what I think!!:

"All casinos want you to play back your winnings. This topic will open up a larger debate involving floats (IMO confidential to casino), payment processing fees (fairly confidential to casino), ethics. "

Clarification on this would be appreciated.

I tried but also wish to point out this thread includes many posts pursuant to delayed payments by others which should be considered just as important as the questions I clarified above!!

End note: many casinos - not just TIV have limits to max payouts. These are normally stated in their Terms and Conditions (usually in the banking section). These include most RTGs, Playtech casinos, and many Microgaming.

Agreed but max. payouts should not be confused with a casino refusing to remove more than $4000/week from one's casino cash balance account after what I consider some big wins especially when not specifically mentioned in the TandC's and furthermore how this was handled by the casino. IMO, this is an unethical business practice and and a means in all probabilty in most cases for the casino to avoid having to pay big wins. Of course, in my case I understand the point in time where I must become responsible but that was not upon my initial win and even thereafter whether I was now aware of this policy or not, it is just wrong as I always maintained and TIV to this point has done everything but take any responsibilty for the past actions even if only applicable to my initial big win as I agree other than change the policy but as mentioned there is an irony to that.

Limits on cash payouts are to protect the casino's cash flow. You cannot compare this to a land based operation since they have cash on hand. This is cyberland where many issues are involved (money transfers, virtual security checks, time zones, odd banks, etc.) Just FYI.

See above and the thread!

Players - you need to understand that when registering at an online casino you agree to these terms. I've been told by some operators that in many cases they will flush these accounts upon request. Depends on the player and circumstances. Ask ahead of time if this concerns you.

See above and the thread!

Rogueness occurs when a casino tells a player that they need to keep depositing in order to receive the max cash out on schedule, or the casino "forgets" to send the player his/her winnings on a regular basis (ahem, Virtual Casino Group).

Or if the money isn't theirs to begin with (pooled funds from a progressive jackpot for example).

Rogueness does not occur if this is stated in their terms and conditions and the casino abides by them.

Players also need to understand that YOU are the master of your own domain. If you feel that you'll be tempted to play your winnings back, then choose not to play at these casinos. Simple as that. Don't expect the casino to take responsibility for your actions.

See above and the thread and I think some of your statements must be considered on a case by case basis as I did and wanted to reread all the sections on Spot The Rogue,Rogue,and Accredited Casinos before clarifying

Thanks!!