BJ- Automatic shuffler vs dealer shuffler

[same_old]

G'day Guru's,

I have been pondering this for a while as I used to love playing Black Jack at my local casino.

At the beginning of last year the casino changed from a dealer shuffling to an automatic one, they still use the same amount of decks, 7 to a 5 seater table.

What I would like to know if anyone has the time to do the sums or already knows is, what is the casino house edge now due to Automatic shufflers it must be considerable.

I used to be able to walk in there watch a few chute's ( <-- not sure of spelling) go by and see somewhat of a pattern for when the high cards come out and I bet big..

I have played only a hand full of times with the new auto shuffler and I hate the bloody thing, out of 4 hands that I doubled not once did I get a picture card.. just frustrating is all

this casino is also an accredited online casino here, they are also land based

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Did you mean continual (no discard rack) or automatic (there is a discard rack)....regardless odds (h.a.) do/does not change except for accurate cardcounters...this response assumes I understood your post correctly

 

[winbig]

Did you mean continual (no discard rack) or automatic (there is a discard rack)....regardless odds (h.a.) do/does not change except for accurate cardcounters...this response assumes I understood your post correctly

I've seen the continual card shufflers, and I'd never play at a blackjack table that has those....

Nash is correct. The HA would never change. If it did, then RUN AWAY!

I wish I could find the story of that guy that won millions when the first automatic shufflers were introduced. He figured out that it wasn't random at all, and used the patterns to his advantage. Too bad they fixed that from happening again

Maybe I should put a bug in A&E's ear and see if they'll devote an episode to that guy for their "Breaking Vegas" series....a must see, btw.

 

[bpb]

I used to be able to walk in there watch a few chute's ( <-- not sure of spelling) go by and see somewhat of a pattern for when the high cards come out and I bet big..

Your voodoo high-card pattern scheme should work equally poorly for a hand shuffle as for an automatic shuffle.

Incidentally, legitimate card counting works equally well for either hand shuffle or ASM. ASMs do however effectively eliminate other advantage player techniques such as shuffle tracking and card sequencing.

 

[Rhyzz]

I'm assuming that when you say 'dealer shuffling' you mean they used a basic shoe with 5/7 decks in?

The main difference between the two methods is that an automatic shuffler has the discarded cards put back in rotation after just 3 or 4 deals, whereas the old style shoes would continually play until the blank card is reached (where a player had split the deck) and it would then be reshuffled, thus giving the player closer to 20 or so hands before a reshuffle.

So in other words, no, the house edge doesn't change, but it does effectively but a stop to card counting, which I suppose in theory does effect the house edge to card counters.

I won't go near a random shuffler - rock on Vegas and their 'Proper' BJ - single deck!!!

 

[aka23]

G'day Guru's,

I have been pondering this for a while as I used to love playing Black Jack at my local casino.

At the beginning of last year the casino changed from a dealer shuffling to an automatic one, they still use the same amount of decks, 7 to a 5 seater table.

What I would like to know if anyone has the time to do the sums or already knows is, what is the casino house edge now due to Automatic shufflers it must be considerable.

I used to be able to walk in there watch a few chute's ( <-- not sure of spelling) go by and see somewhat of a pattern for when the high cards come out and I bet big..

I have played only a hand full of times with the new auto shuffler and I hate the bloody thing, out of 4 hands that I doubled not once did I get a picture card.. just frustrating is all

this casino is also an accredited online casino here, they are also land based

With 7 decks, it won't make a significant difference unless you are card counting. If you aren't card counting, the house edge would be about 0.02% lower with an automatic shuffler. So if the game had a ~0.50% house edge in the past, it would have a ~0.48% house edge with the automatic shuffler.

Somewhat off topic, I've never heard of using 7 decks in blackjack before. Nobody uses 3 or 7 decks for some reason. I guess it is bad luck.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I'm assuming that when you say 'dealer shuffling' you mean they used a basic shoe with 5/7 decks in?

The main difference between the two methods is that an automatic shuffler has the discarded cards put back in rotation after just 3 or 4 deals, whereas the old style shoes would continually play until the blank card is reached (where a player had split the deck) and it would then be reshuffled, thus giving the player closer to 20 or so hands before a reshuffle.

So in other words, no, the house edge doesn't change, but it does effectively but a stop to card counting, which I suppose in theory does effect the house edge to card counters.

I won't go near a random shuffler - rock on Vegas and their 'Proper' BJ - single deck!!!

Maybe a matter of semantics or different cultural terms but the term automatic shuffler in the US has generally always refered to having a discard rack with the cards being shuffled by an automatic shuffle machine once the last card is dealt after the penetration (blank) card. Continual shufflers have no discard rack. I am not sure if more than one round is actually dealt or not as I would never play a continual shuffler in a BandM...Most Vegas single deck pays 6 to 5 on a BJ so novices beware as the HA depending on rules is around 1.4% iirc versus some 2,6 and 8 deck games that generally range from .3% to .7% HA....single deck is a sucker's game in LV unless BJ pays 3 to 2. Most have no clue and even a friend of mine said Tunica is now dealing some 6 to 5 single deck BJ and she played it because it was the only single deck offered she said

 

[Rhyzz]

Single deck helps a player make decisions though. Card counting does work if you're quick enough to keep up with the cards being dealt, although you're quite right in saying the 6 to 5 is where the house pulls back it's edge.

AFAIK a players edge comes from making the dealer bust? Can anyone clarify that for me? I have always been under the opinion that the aim of Blackjack is to make the dealer bust and not simply beat the dealers score... perhaps I'm wrong?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Single deck helps a player make decisions though

Yes but be sure a BJ pays 3 to2

Card counting does work if you're quick enough to keep up with the cards being dealt,

and can disguise yourself and you are one of prolly less than a couple thousand that can do it accurately although millions claim they can,BS

although you're quite right in saying the 6 to 5 is where the house pulls back it's edge.

the house does not pull it back at 6 to 5, they increase the HA anywhere from 200% to 700%. Also remember the rule of 6 on hands dealt when playing single deck!

AFAIK a players edge comes from making the dealer bust? Can anyone clarify that for me?

The dealers bust rate over time is 28._____% so you can do the math!

I have always been under the opinion that the aim of Blackjack is to make the dealer bust and not simply beat the dealers score... perhaps I'm wrong?

Here is a general rule of thumb that varys based on house rules,decks,etc, The house generally has a 5% advantage, but by playing perfect basic strategy (no hunches) including all splits and double downs plus BJ's paying 3 to 2 the 5% initial advantage is decreased by approximately 4.5% to a HA of approximately .5% over the long term

Hope this helps in general but BJ is a game of math plain and simple and the math does not lie in the long run. Best of luck!! EDIT:Another general point of info. is the dealer's average winning hand is 18.4____!!!!

 

[Rhyzz]

Hope this helps in general but BJ is a game of math plain and simple and the math does not lie in the long run. Best of luck!! EDIT:Another general point of info. is the dealer's average winning hand is 18.4____!!!!

I'll stick to my slots in future then Keep pressing that mouse button!