XXLClubCasino V Me Opinion wanted

[uungy]

I havent had the time to do this recently, however I have been in contact with XXLLCC in regards to this, and we are both open to hear what people think.

I had a dispute with Fank, and this is basically how it goes. I obviously put my side out, and I will try to put out XXLClubs point, but being biased to myself its a little difficult

I recieved an offer back in December

A very nice Christmas gift is awaiting you in the Casino lobby!

Simply login to your account (XXXXXXXXXXX) to open your present.

On behalf of myself and the whole XXL Club Casino team, I would like to wish you and your families a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

I look forward to seeing you at the tables!

Frank LLoyd
Manager, XXL Club Casino

http://www.xxlclubcasino.com/

The one and only 5 star online casino


* You must have received this promotion email to be eligible to participate in the XXL Club loyalty program.
* This is a one time offer and expires 10 days from today's date (23/12/2006) at 00.00 EST.
* We kindly ask that you to wager your Xmas present 25 times.
* Players who have a GBP sterling account are required to wager their bonus plus deposit 35 times.
* Bonus/deposit amounts are the same in all currencies: £100 = $100 = €100
* Players with one or more pending withdrawals are not eligible to receive this bonus.
* Please review our Bonus Terms and Conditions.

Note where the T&C's link goes to, which is an anchor by the monthly bonus terms, which has no maximum cash out.

I wagered as required, and requested a withdrawal, however I only recieved €100 of my withdrawal.

I was told the reason was because it had a maximum withdrawal of €100 (not mentioned in the email or in the t&c's in the link), however the terms for this offer are right down the page, whihc is for offeres sent to 200 customers or whatever, however that wasn't where the link took me to. it would have been to http://www.xxlclubcasino.com/terms_promo.html#gop. I honestly did not see those terms there, as they were at the bottom of the page, and only saw them after my withdrawal was refused, when it was pointed out by them.

Emails sent after, had it in the email about the maximum withdrawal limit, however the one above sent on the 23rd Dec, had no info about it.

While the €10 was a free gift, however I believe the terms and conditions are there to stay.

Different partial bonus form offers were offered to me instead, like a 15%-50% of my withdrawal with the standard wagering requirements.

Playtech were not helpful, but to be honest when I contacted Frank through this website he was very helpful, alot more so then Playtech. They never respond, and do nothing in the players interest, as proven before with the wofacai casino problem. So I am not bashing him at all, just want to hear what others think

[SlotsWizard]

How big was the withdrawal you tried to make?

They should meet you halfway: halfway between the 100 Euros maximum and the actual amount you tried to withdraw.

[uungy]

The withdrawal was for €411, which included a very few € of comp points as far as I remember

I may be coming up as unfair, however while a half half sounds fine, its not what the terms say or was advertised

[niklas]

If they fail to effectively communicate any terms of the promotion, I don't think you should be bound by them. It was their mistake that made you miss the max cashout term, not yours. Players make mistakes all the time and we pay for them, like missclicking in blackjack and taking insurance when you didn't mean to, or forgetting to set your bet size when entering a VP or slots game.

But it does feel good when the dealer hits the blackjack or you get dealt a good hand on that bet of 10 times what you intended.

[winbig]

Playing devil's advocate again:

Yes, it was your responsibility to read the T&C.
Yes, it was their fault for providing you with a link to the wrong T&C.

Even so, you should have known that these were the wrong T&C. It clearly states that those T&C were for a monthly bonus, NOT the xmas gift. If there's any discrepancy over T&C, you should get it cleared up before you play. That goes for anyone

No, it's not the casino's duty to give you your full cashout.

But, in the interest of keeping you on as a customer, they should agree to a "settlement".

[vinylweatherman]

You are BOTH wrong!

The full terms are for a max of 100 in WINNINGS, therefore, with the total absence of any term indicating the bonus 10 was "phantom", you should receive 110.

The Mailer is confusing as it repeats SOME of the terms, but misses out TWO critical ones, the max cashout AND the game restrictions.


I also notice that despite all the obvious "advantage" opportunities having been removed for the clever UK player (Double up on Blackjack, big Pair+ on poker 3 etc), they STILL insist that here in the UK we are somehow "skillful" at SLOTS!!!! Bollox to that, admit they are NON RANDOM & I will accept there is justification to bump up WR for Brits who, uniquely in the developed world, can play "slots" during childhood at the seaside "amusement casinos" at the end of the pier, and develop intuitive skills that enables them to press "spin" in that very "special" way that gives them an edge.

[uungy]

Well the point is, there were no T&C's at the time which would point to the correct terms and conditions

The only other T&C's were about mailers sent to the 200 customers or something, which had no mention in the email about it.

The email had all the info in regards to what it can be wagered on, and it all matched with the monthly anyway, so I accepted that was the T&C's.

To say you should contact the casino about the promotion, I would onlyu do that if there are any discrepancies, but there were non I could see, it all seemed so well put out, what was there to ask?

Also vinylweatherman, it may be they were wrong too, but you havent explained what you think. If the email had no information about it, why am I in the wrong, when they clearly steered me to those terms?

[XXLClubCasino]

We did offer a settlement where we would give the player 150€ (50% from the remaining 300€ / (400winning-100paid)) in bonus to be wagered 12x with no maximum cashout this on top of the 100€ that was already paid to the player.

My position was always that the wrongly formatted inner link pointed to the right page but not to the right inner link which point to the monthly loyalty bonus that as really nothing to do with the free Xmas bonus. I feel that the player received a totally free Xmas gift of 100€ with no deposit needed nor had to risk any of its own cash and he should/could be happy about it and should not try to find a smart way to get more out of it. Other players that win from the same free Xmas promotion send us a thank you email!

It was also my Idea to ask players from this forum to give us their opinion about what a fair resolution could be to this unfortunate typo in an inner anchor.

Anyway I agree that we were partially wrong as the anchor was wrongly formatted by mistake and there fore proposed the settlement as stated previously.

I hope to have given our side of the story accurately back (6 months have past). Uungy please do correct me if I'm not.

Please give us all your opinion and I will comply with what ever comes out!

[XXLClubCasino]

PS. we are working on having UK players treated as any other players 12x WR instead of the 25x. Should be in place next month.

[vinylweatherman]

Well the point is, there were no T&C's at the time which would point to the correct terms and conditions

The only other T&C's were about mailers sent to the 200 customers or something, which had no mention in the email about it.

The email had all the info in regards to what it can be wagered on, and it all matched with the monthly anyway, so I accepted that was the T&C's.

To say you should contact the casino about the promotion, I would onlyu do that if there are any discrepancies, but there were non I could see, it all seemed so well put out, what was there to ask?

Also vinylweatherman, it may be they were wrong too, but you havent explained what you think. If the email had no information about it, why am I in the wrong, when they clearly steered me to those terms?

The term starts "ALL", as in "All free cash promotions". So if this was a free chip, these terms would apply, even though a confusion has been thrown in becase it then goes on to specify the rules for the "first 200" mailer promotion, whereas yours was a different one, a Christmas gift. (it's a tiny mistake - not remembering the word ALL when you initially read through all the T & C before playing bonuses - and then realising that maybe there was a mistake, and checking with CS)
The casino is wrong on more than one count though, since the link went to a SPECIFIC set of terms, and not just to the start of the page, the player can normally expect that those were the specific terms for the promotion received, even though the monthly was used as an illustrative example, just as the "first 200" mailer is an illustrative example for what the casino say were the proper terms.

In retrospect, even if you knew the max cashout, you would have still won some 400, and still lost all but 100 (or 110). You might, however, have had more "entertainment" value by playing off the excess on the more amusing slots until you had enough to make the max cashout.

I find all these max cashout rules a bit of a "con", as they have the effect of increasing the house edge by the back door when, by chance, a good winning spell comes along when a max cashout chip is being played, which means that earlier losses, although recovered, are then removed rather than bringing up the average payout over the life of the account.

Max cashouts seem to indicate the casinos are "afraid of something" in terms of players hitting big. It would be better to lower the rate of bonuses awarded, rather than pile them on with such limits on what is the best outcome of a session, a big win.
Psycologically, gamblers remember the big wins (payouts), but not so the boring and usually losing sessions. Thus, lost winnings due to max cashout rules will stick in the memory, and MAY induce reluctance to play with bonuses. This may be best for the casino, but only if the competition follows the same strategy.
It is EXTREMELY RARE to have a max cashout at any Microgaming casino outside of the "free 1 hour & $500" or "free $10 - no deposit required" promotional types used to bring in new players. I would have said "unheard of", but there has been one instance posted of an MG imposing a max cashout on a free chip given to an EXISTING player - can't remember the exact details.