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BetFair and Zero house edge? benefits?

methinks you gotsa be vip to play there, so it's kind of just like comps. house edge is nullified provided you have played and afterwards continue to play such and such amount per some unit time.

wonder how it works though for a card game like blackjack? simply a refund of 0.5% of your wager on each hand? when stated that way it seems kinda lame, actually. but it's still 5x what playtech offers for comps.(right?)

cool innovative idea though definitely.:thumbsup:
 
that's great. is that five cards sub-21 or making 21 on the nose?
 
Zero Lounge!

Greetings, I wanted to start discussions about this unique casino product, (and not cos i am just a Rep!) but i guess an opportunity has presented itself!

Zero lounge - the truth and nothing but the truth! :thumbsup:
We have reduced the odds for the 4 most popular casino games to take out house edge. We do have a cap on the bet amount, but we are looking at increasing these! :eek2:

But How can a Casino have 100% PAYOUT you might wonder? Well, you get to play against your optimal strategy! In theory the risk on these bets is 50/50 so play well in the long run and you have a real shot! :thumbsup:

Betfair.com is a company that leads innovation and delivers gaming solutions to the punter's advantage. Essentially, our main Sports product is an Exchange where you bet against other people - not the HOUSE! This gives on average 20% better odds over time.

I invite all of you to try the casino on the special bonus i have created for CasinoMeister Old / Expired Link no deposit required.

I welcome any suggestions and feedback, both positive and negative, and you have my word that we will continue innovating and improving our Casino to improve your experience

RedArmy :thumbsup:
 
AudiManinBoro said:
Just trying to decipher the ramifications of this and whether its truly a big advantage to the player! Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say "advantage" because the player has no advantage in these games and is not expected to win money over time. I suppose it is an advantage in the sense that the player has better odds than standard. The 4 available "zero house edge" games are blackjack, roulette, baccarat, and Jacks or Better.

Roulette and Jacks or Better indeed have a house edge of 0%. Wizard of Odds estimated the house edge of zero baccarat as 0.03% I believe WoO caclulation was done assuming 6-8 decks. The game would need to be single deck for 0.00%. I'm not sure how many decks the game uses. Blackjack is more complicated because the typical player will not play in such a way to achieve a 0% house edge. However, the house edge will be lower than all but a few single deck games (Boss Media, maybe Crypto) with typical strategy.

I think offering near-zero games like this is an excellent addition. It would be nice if more game options were available, but I can see the reasons for not wanting to provide zero house edge versions of all games in the main casino.
 
so where can we find a strat card that factors in the number of cards and the actions wrt a five card hand totalling 21 exactly?

another question, what if you have a five card hand of less than 21? if you eventually make 21 with 6+ cards is that also 2:1 or is it strictly five cards?
 
RedArmy said:
Greetings, I wanted to start discussions about this unique casino product, (and not cos i am just a Rep!) but i guess an opportunity has presented itself!

Zero lounge - the truth and nothing but the truth! :thumbsup:
We have reduced the odds for the 4 most popular casino games to take out house edge. We do have a cap on the bet amount, but we are looking at increasing these! :eek2:

But How can a Casino have 100% PAYOUT you might wonder? Well, you get to play against your optimal strategy! In theory the risk on these bets is 50/50 so play well in the long run and you have a real shot! :thumbsup:

Betfair.com is a company that leads innovation and delivers gaming solutions to the punter's advantage. Essentially, our main Sports product is an Exchange where you bet against other people - not the HOUSE! This gives on average 20% better odds over time.

I invite all of you to try the casino on the special bonus i have created for CasinoMeister Old / Expired Link no deposit required.

I welcome any suggestions and feedback, both positive and negative, and you have my word that we will continue innovating and improving our Casino to improve your experience

RedArmy :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Bahh opened an account for my pops and no free credit :mad:
 
can you play it in free/fun/"practice" mode? i want to know if six cards making 21 spot on also pays 2:1 or if it must be 5 cards exactly totalling 21 exactly? but moreover, i want a strat card for such a variant. waaaah!:eek:
 
zero lounge - questions

i will get you an answer in a few hours regarding that 21 combinations. Personally i believe that if you manage to get all 6, this should only act as a bonus.:eek2:

Yeah about the free bonus, takes me 48 hours but i think we already credited some last night. I will chase this today for the weekend action ;)

RedArmy

any good suggestions on how the casino product could be improved etc will be rewarded - I am thinking of doing a Zero Black Jack $300 8 player buy-in at $10. The winner keeps the lot. Who wants in?

Casinomeister has already been graciously entered if it happens (sorry its a compulsory,Vortran007 from the line of Xtran Model Series 5200,should be good for odds calculation :D )
 
Question

1. I want to receive bonus but I registered before I got news about 10$ free. So I didn't enter the bonus code.
2. I have no CC. Can I receive the bonus? :what:
 
By the way, I tried to play one of "Zero" games (All Aces VP)
Perfect! This "Zero" game was "2x deposit" game for me :thumbsup:

P.S. But minimum 10$ on roulette and BJ is no good :o
 
Zero Lounge

Glad you enjoyed some features. We will be reveiwing our limits on the Zero lounge in the next couple of months. I do want to reduce the minimum and increase the maximum :)

A grand on RED? :) :D

Anyone having any issues with the Free bonus for Casinomeister? Old / Expired Link

yours......RedArmy
 
EasyRhino said:
I assume the blackjack and video poker payouts assume perfect play. Very very few people play perfectly, so the casinos still gets its vig.
Click to expand...


Red Army did say this a couple of pages ago in fact, which I think is refeshingly frank.

Those looking for sustained entertainment though, may find the range of games quite limited currently - for instance the only VP is single hand JOB, and no slots - any additions in the future pending Red Army?

Edited to - add, having just read Slot Monster's post above - sounds like they have added another VP game - will check it out!
 
I think the Zero Lounge is treacherous in a way (no offense)

I think that with the current limits, the games in the Zero Lounge cannot be played with any decent chance of profit for the player; maybe I am wrong but I completely agree with what I read at one roulette forum - IT'S NOT THE HOUSE EDGE THAT BEATS THE PLAYER, IT'S THE TRENDS (VARIANCE). And I think this is completely true for BJ, Baccarat and other games, too. Has anyone ever busted his/her bankroll because of a ca 0.5-5.0% house edge? :-) I don't think so.
And I have not noticed that there would be any Comp Points at Betfair (which is a pity; nearly almost all casinos have a comp point programme) so there is not much point for a player in wagering lots of money in the hope that the trends will slightly sway in favour of the player.
But it is true that unless I am mistaken, Betfair has already increased bet limits since they introduced Zero Lounge; but I doubt that they will increase them significantly more; but we shall see...
 
Personally I have no idea why anyone would get excited about comp points.
Typically they return around 0.001% of wagers or a $1 return on every $1000 wagered.
I would rather see them scrapped and WR reduced on bonuses.
 
bpb said:
No, it's the house edge.

Quick proof. Bet every number on the roulette table. Now you have no variance. Did you lose money?
Click to expand...

:) And what does this prove except that when you cover all numbers and there is no zero you cannot lose?
If a person has a bad run in roulette does he or she lose 1% of a 1000 USD bankroll and then goes home unhappy with 990 USD because he or she was not in profit that evening? I don't think so...
I am not strong in math but I recommend taking a look at the YouTube videos about the MIT team beating casinos by counting cards in BJ. The guy (maybe a math teacher :)) shows that if you play 100,000 hands with blackjack with 1% advantage (as a result of card counting), the standard deviation is - if I remember correctly 100,000; if you play 1000,000 hands, the standard deviation is still 100,000, which means that if you have 1% advantage you cannot lose and you HAVE TO MAKE PROFIT. And the same applies in reverse - if you have a 1% disadvantage, you HAVE TO LOSE, if you play ONE MILLION HANDS, for example. But that does not happen often to a person, I mean playing one million hands. So IMHO the house edge is important FOR THE CASINOS because due to the law of large numbers their profit is GUARANTEED; but it is not what makes the players lose - unless the player plays a million hands of BJ or million spins in roulette flat betting.
Therefore I think your comment can be easily disproved by math (which you seem to be invoking; I think I see your point but I think that house edge is not what makes INDIVIDUAL players lose, it is something that makes the players lose as A GROUP) - but I am unable to present some exact calculations; I am just a layman; but I think the example with the MIT team is illustrative enough; I might have got some of the numbers wrong but I remember the bottom line of that lecture; whoever is interested can find it on YouTube.
 
Rusty said:
Personally I have no idea why anyone would get excited about comp points.
Typically they return around 0.001% of wagers or a $1 return on every $1000 wagered.
I would rather see them scrapped and WR reduced on bonuses.
Click to expand...

Well, with no zero in roulette there would be a reason to get excited about comp points I think :). But that's why they will never introduce comp points for the Zero Lounge... IMHO. :)
 
they are not the first poker site to offer this deal so it is not quite as revolutionary as has been suggested. The move to do things in a way with overall lower house edge and in some cases no house edge is a great idea as it still leaves the casino opperator scope to make profit (in other games with house edge) and gives the player excellent value for money.

after that it is a balance with quality of software , quality of service generally (support etc) and gaming options that make a site really be a place where I would want to put some money.

Would be interested in feedback about both the software and the game variety (any tourneys? what games have regular numbers of players in ring action etc)
 
Janek12 said:
I am not strong in math but I recommend taking a look at the YouTube videos about the MIT team beating casinos by counting cards in BJ. The guy (maybe a math teacher :)) shows that if you play 100,000 hands with blackjack with 1% advantage (as a result of card counting), the standard deviation is - if I remember correctly 100,000; if you play 1000,000 hands, the standard deviation is still 100,000, which means that if you have 1% advantage you cannot lose and you HAVE TO MAKE PROFIT. And the same applies in reverse - if you have a 1% disadvantage, you HAVE TO LOSE, if you play ONE MILLION HANDS, for example. But that does not happen often to a person, I mean playing one million hands. So IMHO the house edge is important FOR THE CASINOS because due to the law of large numbers their profit is GUARANTEED; but it is not what makes the players lose - unless the player plays a million hands of BJ or million spins in roulette flat betting.
Click to expand...
The counting card numbers listed above don't make sense. With 100,000 $1 hands and a fixed player edge of 1%, the calc on my site estimates a 99.7% chance of gain and 1 SD range of return of +/- $365. With 1 million hands, the chance of gain is nearly 100% and 1 SD is +/- $1160. Note that the ratio of $1160/$365 = sqrt(1 million/100,000). However, this is a poor estimation for card counting since card counters usually do not maintain a fixed bet size, and the player edge does not remain fixed at 1%. The actual chance of gain varies greatly according to range of bet size. For accurate results, you'd really need to use a simulator.
 
Thanks for your reply on Zero Casino Games

Comrades,

thanks for the replies and suggestions! I have been away last week :(

ok so we need the limits lowered and raised at the same time. This is currently taking palce and within 1-2 months this should be in place. I will keep you posted.

I just think the lower the odds for a casino, the higher the odds for players :D

RedArmy

p.s. Casinomeister's freebie bonus is also getting 100% deposit bonus up to the first $100 - enjoy !
 
RedArmy said:
Comrades,

thanks for the replies and suggestions! I have been away last week :(

ok so we need the limits lowered and raised at the same time. This is currently taking palce and within 1-2 months this should be in place. I will keep you posted.

I just think the lower the odds for a casino, the higher the odds for players :D

RedArmy

p.s. Casinomeister's freebie bonus is also getting 100% deposit bonus up to the first $100 - enjoy !
Click to expand...

Very much hope this wasn't the end of RedArmy's involvement here, as no posts for a fortnight, not replied to my pm from a week ago, and betfair haven't ever gotten a promo to work yet correctly, and very difficult to get their c.s. to resolve anything currently,& I still haven't received one email from Betfaircasino ever - despite assurances am on mailing list...we deffo need redarmy therefore!
 
Janek 12,

I will make you understand why it is so definite that you are bound to lose when playing egainst a house edge. Forget about standard deviation, it is not the reason. It is not because of the "law of large numbers" either, or anything difficult to understand.

Suppose a player has a 10,000$ bankroll and goes to the casino, and he is desperate to double his bankroll, and make it 20,000$. If he bets the whole 10,000$ at once, in one bet, on red or black, then he has a 18/37=48.65% probability of achieving his goal of doubling his bankroll to 20,000$. BUT IF HE TRIES TO MAKE HIS 10,000$ BANKROLL INTO 20,000$ SLOWLY, BY BETTING E.G. 50$ PER BET, THEN THE PROBABILITY OF REACHING THE 20,000$ IS NOT EVEN 1%!!!!!!!!!!! The common gambler like you, ignores this fact, and thinks that the probability is again about 48%!

Now WHY this is so? Because when you keep betting 50$, your bankroll goes up and down as you win some bets and you lose other bets. And since your bankroll of 10,000$ is very large compared to the 50$ bets, then (even if there was no zero at the roulette and you had 50% of winning each bet), it will take tooooo many spins-bets to either lose the 10,000$, or double it to 20,000$. But in the meantime, the casino will win per average 1 bet for every 37 bets you make (or you might say, 2.7bets for every 100 bets you make, and that is what a 2.7% edge mean). Therefore, before a winning run of luck could happen which would lift you to the 20,000$, the casino will have already slowly eaten your bankroll.

Keep reading what I said, and you will understand it.
 
you are 100% guaranteed bound to lose, if playing with small stakes to your bankroll, when playing with zero house edge also, for the record....as it's only zero % if perfect play is achieved & maintained. Haven't found yet either, an autoplay facility which played 100% correctly.
 

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