Grosvenor=No Aussies

[redline4]

Hi,
I attempted to register a Real Money account at Grosvenor today, and was refused.
When I queried this, here is the reply:
"Unfortunately Australia is a prohibited country for using Grosvenor Casino online. The reason for this is down to licensing laws to operate a casino. I can only suggest to use an alternative online casino."
There is no drama, but I thought I would give an update as I could find no reference of this in their T&C's.
See ya!

 

[Simmo!]

I believe that Oz based casinos cannot offer online gambling to Aussie residents but wasn't aware Grosvenor were licenced there. I thought they were linked to Gala/Blue Square. Haven't checked my facts as I'm rushing through here quick but from memory...Jetset?

 

[jetset]

It's got me beat - Simmo's right - Grosvenor belongs to the Rank group which also owns Bluesquare etc. As far as I know this is a UK group with no Aussie connections.

It can't be connected to the new Gambling Act in the UK because that doesn't come into force until September and does not in any case contain this sort of prohibition as far as I know.

The Australian law stops Aussie-licensed and domiciled online casinos (like the Lasseters online group) from offering gambling to Australian residents, although it doesn't stop them from entertaining non-Australian residents.

I haven't heard of any changes in the law over there - maybe one of our knowledgeable Aussie members like Macpomme can comment?

Edited to add that another possibility is a confused operator or support person?

 

[Avatar73]

doesn't belong to gala, thank goodness. Would take about 4 weeks to get any reply if that was the case!

 

[macpomme]

Australia is a vexing country when it comes to online gambling.

The Federal Act makes it an offence to advertise online gambling to people in Australia except to those people who are in the geographic zone prescribed in an Australian State issued online gambling licence. (eg: Lasseters can only accept Australians who live in the Northern Territory south of Tennants Creek. Centrebet Casino and Centrebet Poker can't accept Australians as another example)

The Federal Act makes debts accrued with offshore online gambling businesses unenforceable in Australia (repudiations and credit betting on sports or P2P).

Queensland, Victorian and Tasmanian State Law makes it illegal for anyone in that State to PLAY, and also for anyone to provide an unauthorised game to people in that State (an unauthorised game is a game not approved by the Regulator in that State). The Northern Territory has similar provisions.

WA and SA don't have much legislation in place to cover online gambling but their population bases are so small .... well who cares.

NSW has some draconian legislation about illegal games - which does cover online gambling and if you live in NSW you should be cognisant of ... (Casino Rewards and BetRev).

Norfolk Island and the Cocos-Keeling Islands (Commonwealth Protectorates) - are covered only by Commonwealth Law - as is Hurd and Macquarie Islands, as are our Antarctic Bases ....

Federal Law in Australia is complaint based. So someone has to lodge a complaint to the ACMA - who must investigate each complaint. The ACMA has a staff of 3 managers, 4 analysts, a kangaroo, a wombat and 7 dingoes - who all are required to share a mobile phone on a rotation basis for on-call work. Budget papers show that they recently got there newly refurbished IBM PC AT to connect to the internet (character mode only).

 

[jetset]

Australia is a vexing country when it comes to online gambling.

The Federal Act makes it an offence to advertise online gambling to people in Australia except to those people who are in the geographic zone prescribed in an Australian State issued online gambling licence. (eg: Lasseters can only accept Australians who live in the Northern Territory south of Tennants Creek. Centrebet Casino and Centrebet Poker can't accept Australians as another example)

The Federal Act makes debts accrued with offshore online gambling businesses unenforceable in Australia (repudiations and credit betting on sports or P2P).

Queensland, Victorian and Tasmanian State Law makes it illegal for anyone in that State to PLAY, and also for anyone to provide an unauthorised game to people in that State (an unauthorised game is a game not approved by the Regulator in that State). The Northern Territory has similar provisions.

WA and SA don't have much legislation in place to cover online gambling but their population bases are so small .... well who cares.

NSW has some draconian legislation about illegal games - which does cover online gambling and if you live in NSW you should be cognisant of ... (Casino Rewards and BetRev).

Norfolk Island and the Cocos-Keeling Islands (Commonwealth Protectorates) - are covered only by Commonwealth Law - as is Hurd and Macquarie Islands, as are our Antarctic Bases ....

Federal Law in Australia is complaint based. So someone has to lodge a complaint to the ACMA - who must investigate each complaint. The ACMA has a staff of 3 managers, 4 analysts, a kangaroo, a wombat and 7 dingoes - who all are required to share a mobile phone on a rotation basis for on-call work. Budget papers show that they recently got there newly refurbished IBM PC AT to connect to the internet (character mode only).

Bloody hell - it sounds almost as confusing as the United States LOL!!!!

From your perspective, can you see any reason for Grosvenor's online operations turning away Aussie players?

 

[redline4]

Thanks for the information macpomme.
I opened a Real Money account with Bluesquare today, no problems.
Here are a few points of interest:
Both Grosvenor and Bluesquare have been announced as New Casinomeister Members.
The advice in these announcements is that Grosvenor does not accept US citizens, and Bluesquare does not accept US or Australian citizens.
The casino rep is RankInteractive, whose profile states "I am the Casino Product Manager for Blue Sq Casino and Grosvenor Casino".

As I said earlier, this holds no dramas for me, and I present these points in the interest of clarifying what has turned out to be a perplexing situation.

See ya.

 

[jetset]

I don't believe anyone's remonstrating with Grosvenor over this - it just seems weird to ban Aussie players and it would be interesting to know what the rationale is behind such an action.

Maybe RankInteractive will enlighten us???

 

[macpomme]

Bloody hell - it sounds almost as confusing as the United States LOL!!!!

From your perspective, can you see any reason for Grosvenor's online operations turning away Aussie players?

To be frank yes I can. Australia being a first world jurisdiction, with extradition treaties in place with the majority of first and second world countries, with both Federal and some State law that addresses online gambling does represent a risk to online gambling operations that have public faeces.

Our business has consulted to many Australian and other operators, and as but one example we built the Centrebet Poker business from its establishment phase and for the first year or so. We also laid down the principles for Centrebet Casino. Our advice concurred with their internal legal opinion as to how to approach the Australian market with Centrebet as a public company. It's my opinion that Centrebet doesn't touch the Australian market with gaming products because the legal risk is too high.

Sure they are Australian and to do so would place many, many other assets at risk. But thats not the only factor, the Federal, Qld, Tas, NT and NSW legislation has such severe penalties upon conviction that one needs to ask oneself is the income worth the cost of the defense of an action (OK it may be in absentia), a conviction in such an action, and the penalties (civil and criminal) - for my Directors, shareholders and company officers.

I know Australia does represent the 4th largest online market per capita (oops ... did I give something away there) .... but to tackle this market as a publicly visible company is to tackle a legal nightmare IMHO.

EDIT: faeces incorrectly typed, should be faces.

 

[same_old]

Hi gang,

Lucky Nugget casino doesnt accpet Australians also(what group are they).

Good thread this one I live in the N.T and wanted to know the different state and territory laws as I play online a lot.

 

[jetset]

To be frank yes I can. Australia being a first world jurisdiction, with extradition treaties in place with the majority of first and second world countries, with both Federal and some State law that addresses online gambling does represent a risk to online gambling operations that have public faeces.QUOTE

That sure is an interesting perspective....I hadn't thought of Australian enforcement going outside of Australia to pursue non-Aussie companies for offering online gambling to Australians.

I'd still like to hear from RankInteractive.

 

[RankInteractive]

Hi,

Just to clarify Blue Square Casino and Grosvenor Casinos don't allow Australian players, and both casinos don't allow players from predominantely the same jurisdictions. Differences between the lists only arise due to the software platform, i.e. Playtech and WagerWorks both have their own differing compliance requirements.

The reason why we don't accept players from Australia is mainly due to the reasons that macpomme mentioned earlier. As we are part of a large publicly traded company, we felt that it was too much of a risk to allow player's from Australia, this is also one of the reasons why we have never accepted players from the USA.

The decision not to allow Australian players was also made a good few years ago, when we also had land based interests within Australia, and when Grosvenor Casino was trading under the Hard Rock brand.

I hope that this answers your queries, but if there is anything else that you'd like to know, I'll endeavour to do my best.

Thanks,

Steven Humphries
Casino Product Manager
Rank Interactive Development