CocoaRob?

[Nifty29]

Hi Rob

Just wondering what all the updates have been the past few days?

Have the paytables been changed on Oceans Treasure at all? (or any other game?)

Also, do you know when the new slot game with expanding wilds is due to arrive?

Am I ever going to stop asking questions????

[RobRival]

Hello,

The software is being updated to handle some upcoming features and changes (menu styles, etc.).

The paytables have not changed for Oceans Treasure. A few weeks back some of the other games had their paytables/reels updated to be more bonus round centric. As for the expanding wilds slot, that's coming soon - it's going to have a slightly different bonus round, hence the hold up.

Cheers and good luck.

Rob

Hi Rob

Just wondering what all the updates have been the past few days?

Have the paytables been changed on Oceans Treasure at all? (or any other game?)

Also, do you know when the new slot game with expanding wilds is due to arrive?

Am I ever going to stop asking questions????

[vinylweatherman]

Hello,

The software is being updated to handle some upcoming features and changes (menu styles, etc.).

The paytables have not changed for Oceans Treasure. A few weeks back some of the other games had their paytables/reels updated to be more bonus round centric. As for the expanding wilds slot, that's coming soon - it's going to have a slightly different bonus round, hence the hold up.

Cheers and good luck.

Rob

This would be good. Many players play bonus slots in order to have a go at the bonus rounds. Most complaints about these kinds of games are on the lines of "xxx spins and still no bonus round".
Provided the payout percentages are not adversely affected, this is unlikely to draw complaints. Openness about the fact the reels have been changed will help the conspiracy theory that the changes were designed to take more money from the game without telling players.

[Nifty29]

Thanks for taking the time to post Rob, but I'm afraid there's something just not right about the games at the moment - I notice today also that the bonus payout on the oceans treasure shell pick game is much lower - another paytable change?

I'm taking a break from Rival for a while, as Im just not getting reasonable value for money. Its off to MG or RTG for a fresh crack I think.

I dont like the paytables being changed without anything being mentioned (as you said it was a few weeks back without warning). If this happened at an MG casino there would be hell to pay I would think.

Again, its nothing personal, I just wont play where I dont have a fair chance to win.

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for taking the time to post Rob, but I'm afraid there's something just not right about the games at the moment - I notice today also that the bonus payout on the oceans treasure shell pick game is much lower - another paytable change?

I'm taking a break from Rival for a while, as Im just not getting reasonable value for money. Its off to MG or RTG for a fresh crack I think.

I dont like the paytables being changed without anything being mentioned (as you said it was a few weeks back without warning). If this happened at an MG casino there would be hell to pay I would think.

Again, its nothing personal, I just wont play where I dont have a fair chance to win.

If more bonus rounds are given, it makes sense that the win from each will, on average, be less.
Problem is, this makes players feel uneasy about the games they are playing, how can they know they are getting a fair return, as after all, previous payouts will bear no relation to what can be expected in the future.
One way to ease fears is to get an independent determination of theoretical return from an independent body, and publish it for each game where it is not obvious from rules (such as card games). Publish the dates and changes made to each game, so that there is openness rather than rumour as happens when RTG games seem to go cold all of a sudden.

Currently, players know there have been changes, and if they experience rapidly vanishing deposits now, they will assume these changes have vastly increased the house edge, and will look elsewhere.
Microgaming benefits from the assertion that individual operators cannot change the paytables, and accusations tend to get directed to MG having made an across the board change. If MG change too much, they will get caught out by audited payout figures, although this does not stop individual slots being messed with (they already have different payout percentages, as demonstrated by Zoozie, I believe Thunderstruck is close to 95%, whereas Tally Ho is nearer to 96%).

[Nifty29]

Currently, players know there have been changes, and if they experience rapidly vanishing deposits now, they will assume these changes have vastly increased the house edge, and will look elsewhere

.

Yup, thats where Im coming from Vinyl.

I agree that the MG slots have different payouts, but you KNOW that they have different payouts - however, as you said, if MG started messing with the reels/symbols/paytable it would become obvious via the independent auditing process.

Ive been playing long enough to know when Im just having a dry spell, and when a slot is just not producing the same frequency of symbols/wins etc. A slot player has to accept the swings, but when it doesnt 'feel' right its time to move along.

Rival are a good group and I love the games, but im not going to lose my shirt to play them.

[RobRival]

Hello everyone,

I can assure you that the paytable has not changed for Ocean Treasure. I will definitely bring up the idea of publishing changes in the future - as it stands, the current idea of simply publishing the payback rate could possibly be improved. That being said, it does appear that you can't please people all of the time ---

The OP is positive (ie, a net winner) at every Rival powered casino he has played at, and is up many thousands of dollars across the board. So as I can appreciate the frustration at hitting a losing streak, please take some comfort that overall you're doing very well.

Cheers,

Rob

[Nifty29]

Thanks for the reply Rob.

I dont think its a particularly good idea to state publicly as to whether a player has a net win or loss,as it is a private issue, and from most people I would be offended - however I know you are just trying to make a point.

However, the point isnt that I have never won at Rival - I didnt ever say that - the point is that it seems much more difficult lately. Now that either means one of two things:

1. The games have changed (which you stated they did a few weeks back)
2. I have just been very lucky in the past.

I agree that both are possible, and it may be that I am completely wrong about the current situation - but I dont usually post unless I have some idea of what I'm saying, and its a simple matter of win/loss at the moment.

The fact that I have a net win since opening my accounts has no bearing on what is going on at present. You did say that the games had been changed to become more bonus-centric (not quite sure what that means exactly), and it was done without notification, which brings the whole player/casino trust issue into play (what Vinylweatherman is getting at).

If a casino wants to make changes/alterations they should at least send an email around if it affects the reels/gameplay - even if it doesnt negatively affect the % payout, it would create a good deal of confidence and would avoid any of these kinds of questions in the future.

As for 'not pleasing people all of the time'....well Im actually easy to please. Just be upfront and honest, provide good service, and pay quickly and there's a good chance you'll get your money back in time. Rival has in most instances provided the last 2 but Im not completely sold on the first.

[RobRival]

Replied via PM.

Cheers,

Rob
Rival Technical Support

[silcnlayc]

It seems that the issues are still at hand here at a casino that could win a lot of loyal players but still refuses to do the "right" thing in which the player gets a fair shake at the slot wheel.

I still play here in play mode only, since I closed my real accounts out because I still like the games but refuse to hand over any real funds since, I, too believe, they are not on the up and up on the payscale and by that I mean, it is one of the poorest pay scales at any casino being offered.

I played last night for fun, had a great time, at $18.75? a spin, hit the feature a few times on the Ocean Treasure and made around $250-$1000 each feature respecitvely.

Now do the math....I can hit this kind of money on a $2 spin, so what makes them think I would play for real here?

C'mon CocoaRob, you have a very good product that could bring in an unimaginable amount of traffic, but somehow, the casino refuses to address this...and continues to be in denial...hence all the "tweaking", trying to get it right. It isn't going to be right until someone takes a good hard look at the pay tables, and says, would I play here for a chance at that amount of return for my investment or go somewhere else for triple the investment opportunity? I think not here..lets go there....

We have been saying this for a very long time..I guess the casino doesn't feel it needs any more traffic and is willing to lose what they have in the long run..bad business practice in my mind...

Great product+lousy return = fun play only, don't they get it yet?. Lots of lost revenue here.