Blackjack: Do You Use Progressive Betting?

**Tailgun** · 21st September 2006, 06:07 PM

I'm beginning to suspect all online Blackjack games are crooked. I've just been experimenting with different betting strategies at several different casinos, with varied software (Playtech, Microgaming, RTG).

Regardless of using perfect strategy, with either progressive betting or flat betting, I seem to lose almost every time. And I've noticed with a progressive betting strategy it is common - if not a constant - to lose between four and five of the first seven hands. This consistently puts the player "behind the eight ball" in BJ, seemingly even with perfect basic strategy.

I'm trying different versions of BJ to see which I prefer. Bodog (RTG) doesn't feature Surrender or the ability to hit on a split beyond the first card. Other casinos use 8-deck BJ games or 4-deck with other various playing restrictions.

I've never seen the kind of hands in Atlantic City like I see online. It's common to lose 5 or 6 hands in a row and almost impossible for the player to win even four in a row! In fact, I hardly ever win even three hands in row.

Last night I tried playing with funny money and using progressive betting at four different casinos. Using $2000 'stakes' I lost at three of the four (I was up 1800 at Tropez before quitting). I used the following progressive strategies:

Progressive Betting System: Two-Level

Probably one of the simplest betting systems to use, and still one of the most effective, this two-level system simply gives you two options - minimum or maximum bet. If you lose, bet the smaller amount. If you win, bet the maximum amount. I set my minimum bet at $100 and my maximum bet at $250. Start off with the $100 bet. If you win, make your next bet $250. Keep on betting $250 until you lose, then go back to the $100 bet. This is the most basic progressive betting system.

Progressive Betting System: Five-Level

This is another simple betting system which is based on a 1, 2, 3, 5, back-to-1 progression (Notice: There is no 4). For example, for a $100 minimum bet, the four levels are $100, $200, $300 & $500. With this system, I started with a minimum bet of $100 and progressed to the next level after each winning hand. When I lost a hand, I dropped back down to the minimum bet of $100. Also, if you win four hands in a row, you drop back down to the $100 bet.

How this works is the system is rewarding you during a winning streak, but doesn't kill you when you go on a losing streak. Let's say you lose your first three hands and then win over your next three. Assuming a starting wager of $100, you would be ahead $300 at the end of six hands. If you were betting an equal amount on each hand, you would be even

Breakdown:

Bodog (RTG)
River Belle (Microgaming)
Casino Tropez (Playtech)
Kiwi Casino (Playtech)

What is going on here? I'd like to hear from the resident BJ pros like The Watchdog as to preferred casinos and particular Blackjack games, including which features are 'must have' for playing BJ online.

**soflat** · 21st September 2006, 06:26 PM

I've seen a lot of people say they don't get the bad beats at B&M casinos like they do online.

Personally, I have only played B&M BJ once and I got my ass kicked playing perfect strategy. It was as bad as my worse run online. The dealer sure was cute though.

**Westland Bowl** · 21st September 2006, 07:24 PM

I do use a progressive system but I don't play the same way each and every time. I've heard from elsewhere (I will not reveal the source) that many online casinos use Artificial Intelligence in their random number generators to determine the player's style of play. I don't know if that is true or not but it does seem that way to me.

I've experienced this: If you started out at an online casino winning a bit with a Martingale system, soon you'll start running into alot of long losing streaks and often. If you tend to up your bets after having a winning hand, you'll see alot more win-and-dones where there are many single wins surrounded by a series of losses (and also more losing double-downs will occur the next hand after your won hand). There are many other counter-measures online casinos use against your style of play, whatever it may be.

You'd think that the house advantage is tough enough but with A.I.....geesh! Over the long run, the online casinos still manage to be certified "random" (or "fair") and your win rate is still around the standard 41% (pushes included). After a while, you learn to deal with the counter-measures (and sometimes almost predictable).

**silcnlayc** · 21st September 2006, 07:41 PM

many online casinos use Artificial Intelligence in their random number generators to determine the player's style of play

I have played BJ many years online and as posted in another discussion thread, playing "Perfect" blackjack does not constitute a favorable outcome for the player. I believe that the casinos have some kind of system or AI if you want to call it, that can pick up (or track) your style of play, and the almost guarantee a loss when that player will try to play a "perfect" game, hence, all the losses for this style of play.

I made it known to a few in the other discussion how I would stand on odd times when it called to hit, double when it called to stand etc etc...YOU CAN NOT PLAY PERFECT blackjack against a computer. I feel you need to change up your style few times during play to get ahead, which I have done for years and come away, ahead.

Classic example was last night, I doubled on a 16 and hit a duece and won. I did another double on a 17 hit a 4 and won. I will have to post screen shots of my play if you like, so it's more understandable, and this kind of play has kept me playing slots a lot longer...

**Tailgun** · 21st September 2006, 07:54 PM

I've heard from several different places now the idea of Artificial Intelligence and account-spidering by online casinos to rig games, preventing big winning runs. I'd just hoped it wasn't the case. ANY kind of cheating by the casinos (even the reputable ones!) really kills the experience for me. If they can rig one game, they can rig any game, including that one time I let a really big bet ride...

**happygobrokey** · 21st September 2006, 09:44 PM

did they rig jack to make aka23 a 20 k profit at 40 casinos? you guys really think they counter-strategise the random shuffles to beat player basic strategy?

**Reef** · 21st September 2006, 10:15 PM

Bet size doesn't change the casinos edge.

Personally, whenever I'm tilting after losing 10 bets+ in a row, I up the bet. Either go big or go home.

**Tailgun** · 21st September 2006, 10:15 PM

Wow! I just read more on this subject and am stunned by my own naivete. There is absolutely no doubt now that all online casinos cheat at Blackjack, regardless of specific software. Each and every casino has engineered subtle but very unique "differences" within the algorithms of their Random Number Generators.

I'm speechless.. and very disappointed. To think of all the money I've wasted thinking the games were fair.

**bpb** · 21st September 2006, 10:16 PM

You guys and your cute little theories are so adorable.

Can't you just accept that you're bound to lose due to the rules of the game? Do you really need to make up stories about casinos implementing sophisticated algorithms to increase their advantage from 1% to 3% (5%? 10%, 20%)

Is it because it's easier to believe that "I lost my money because the evil casino cheated me" rather than "I lost my money because I threw it at a losing proposition even though I knew in advance that it was a losing proposition"?

And if you think it's rigged, then don't play. The absolute worst idea is to start betting more through some progressive strategy, or start deviating from basic strategy. If the casino is cheating you, I guarantee that you aren't going to get around it through "skillful" manipulation of your bets and/or strategy.

I mean, does the the line of thinking go like this?

1) The casino is obviously rigging their game to increase their take
2) The casino is smart enough to rig it in away that nobody has discovered anything strange through rigorous mathematical analysis on a large sample size of play logs
but
3) I'm smarter than both the casino and the analysts because I not only know that they're rigging the game, I can turn the tables on the evil casino by turning their nefarious rigging against them, thus giving me the advantage!