RTGs random jackpots-how random??

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Zaqwert

I used to work for RTG, as a software developer, and I worked directly on the Real Series slots.

There is no magic spin number for the jackpot to pay off. Each spin is a completely independent event. Past spins have no impact at all on what the current or future spins will be.

Regardless of what you have heard or haven't heard up till now, the random jackpot "chance" of hitting is the same per dollar wagered. That is the key.

To say it mathematically, playing 100 spins at $1 a spin has the same chance of hitting the jackpot as a single spin of $100 (long run).

So you aren't "missing out" on anything by playing lower stakes. And you aren't "gaining" anything by playing higher stakes.

The reason is a fixed % of each dollar wagered goes to feed the jackpot, regardless of how it was wagered.

Also the slots are truly video slots. Electronic representation of the "physical wheels" exist and for each spin the wheel stops are generated. Each stop on each wheel is equally likely. The way a payout % is achieved is by what symbols are on what wheels in what quantities. When set to a lower payout % the wheel(s) might have fewer "good" symbols and/or more "lesser" symbols.

Also, it should be noted the wheels are not necessarily uniform. Wheel 1 could have 32 symbols, wheel 2 could have 29, wheel 3 could have 37, and so forth.

It's very hard to spot changes in the wheels from payout % to payout% due to the fact you only need to make a minimal change to affect the %. Changing a high symbol to a low symbol on a single wheel or two very well might be the only change.

So, this means we can calculate which RTG's have screwed the slots down tight and which are more generous by comparing reel strips from a subset of popular slots across several RTG casinos. This method was able to pretty accurately determine the payouts of Thunderstruck slots at MG casinos.

if this were accurate, then vinylweatheman would already have 5 PCs spinning 24/7 at .01 per spin and we would see his name on the winner list every month.

I do not require 5 PCs to do this, the one I have next door will suffice (it can do it with 5 MGs, so 5 RTGs would be easy.
I have NEVER won an RTG random jackpot, however I did get 5 scatters on Thunderstruck over 4 weeks, so such "fishy" happenings are not unknown (unless one believes MG slots have a lower HE for low rollers).

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by zaqwert

Regardless of what you have heard or haven't heard up till now, the random jackpot "chance" of hitting is the same per dollar wagered. That is the key.

This is excactly what I have been saying all the time. And now this comes first hand from an insider RTG-developer. Also the jackpot data sheet I saw clearly showed that the probability was dependant on bet-size. Besides the math that has been done for the slot also shows it is impossible to have same probability no matter what bet-size, because it was very easy exploitable.

Also if the jackpot was hit after a certain fixed number of spins, this would also be exploitable by people having access to the database. And it would be a really stupid way to implement it. I rule this option out very fast.

Zoozie

[Nifty29]

Great discussion people

I vote someone from RTG comes on down and gives us the good oil....shouldnt have to wait too long for that

I have a mate who won a 7k and a 14k jackpot last month at 2 different RTG's, plus another 8k the month before at one of the same casinos. He usually bets $2 - $5 per spin so he's not a low roller.

Random Jackpots havent paid me a visit yet however....

[Credo]

disclaimer: I once worked for RTG, but am not with the company anymore.

The above statement:
'the random jackpot "chance" of hitting is the same per dollar wagered' is true.

But, that doesn't mean that the denomination affects the odds, with respect to the random jackpot.

Consider this (not totally representative) scenario...
Imagine a $1 slot machine that allocated $.99 to the game, and $.01 to the jackpot. For each spin, the house keeps the $.99, and pays you according to the reels. For the other .01, it plays another game, and pays you randomly according to some algorithm.

Now let's say the casino wanted to offer a $2 version of this machine. They could double the paytable, and keep $1.98 and offer double the payout. But what about the other $.02? It could either double the payout, or it could give you 2 entries on the other game. They are the same in terms of expected value, but the distribution of results changes a bit.

The important thing is that this would be a scenario in which the denomination would not change the odds on either machine, yet they share a jackpot, and the higher denom. machine would hit more often (albeit for a lower multiple of the base wager).

This is not exactly the way it works, but the math is very much like this scenario.

[Nifty29]

Interesting...

So you are saying you get 1 'ticket' in the 'draw' for each dollar you wager i.e. a $5 wager actually gives you 5 'tickets', so your chances at hitting a RJ are better with a higher bet.

Would this also be a good example:

The jackpot hits at a specific 'ticket' number, and the 'tickets' start being 'issued' in numerical sequence from 1.

So, lets say the first 5 spins of this slot from the jackpot start value are of the following denominations:

Spin#1 = $2
Spin#2 = $5
Spin#3 = $1
Spin#4 = $2
Spin#5 = $10

..then the 'ticket' numbers would be issued as follows:

Spin#1 = 1 thru 2
Spin#2 = 3 thru 7
Spin#3 = 8
Spin#4 = 9 thru 10
Spin#5 = 11 thru 20

So, if the jackpot was to be hit at 'ticket' number 2894, and someone had a $10 spin and was issued 10 'tickets' starting at 2890 they would win it?


I know this is a simple expression, but is it kinda close?

If so, it would explain a great many things.

(No - I havent been drinking - but I think I should start)

[Credo]

That is exactly the idea.
Now imagine those are not tickets, but individual independent chances to win, and you're pretty much there.

[Zaqwert]

Yes if your total spin costs you $5 you have a 5x better chance of winning on that spin that someone whose total spin was $1.

However you also PAID 5 times as much for it.

So it's a mathematical wash.

Someone who buys 1,000 lottery tickets has a much better chance of winning the lottery than someone who buys a single ticket, but they have no mathematical advantage or disadvantage.

But don't let this ticket analogy make you think there is some magic spin or ticket system, there isn't.

Basically a random number is generated (a huge range) on each spin and if that random number is within a certain qualifying range the jackpot is triggered.

The qualifying range grows/shrinks directly proportional to bet size.

[me_and_ed]

All I know is that I still have not won one.

[lojo]

Originally Posted by me_and_ed

All I know is that I still have not won one.

Me too niether

[Avatar73]

I won a fancy 12M random .... in free play

but nothing for real. Which I guess is kind of fair, seeing as in the big scheme of things I haven't really wagered that much on slots....

Also in an entry-fee tournament I won a few of the Hulk RJ's, which is kinda like real-play odds! But not big and didnt win the comp either

PS thanks for the explanation! v good.