RTGs random jackpots-how random??

[Flizzin]

IMO, seems fair to me... That's the whole idea of random in my head is that anyone can win the RJP regardless of bet size.

I guess it depends on what you would call fair...

[soflat]

Originally Posted by Zoozie

Thank you for responding!

I would like to comment these three sentences, since they conflict with each other. I will number them 1), 2) and 3).

First of all I just proved mathemathically earlier before:
If 2) is true then players will not play with the same house advantage as you claim in 3).
This is one of the core problems here.

I'm pretty sure the chance of hitting the jackpot on a single spin directly corresponds to total bet. Thus each player will have the same house advantage with regards to the random jackpots.

Basically each penny bet on a line is one bet, and each of those bets has the same chance of winning the jackpot.

Of course I could be wrong.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by winbig

If that's the case, then it's not "random".

Random = everyone has an EQUAL chance to hit it, no matter what their bet.

It's kinda similar to how the publishers clearing house drawing was back in the day - you had to actually buy something to have a better chance of winning (or win at all). The only difference in this case is you have to bet a certain amount per spin to have a better (or any) chance.

I won a random jackpot on a .20 bet, with a low deposit. What I have noticed about them is this... If the numbers are spinning rapidly, that means a lot of people are playing at that moment, if you do not see the numbers moving, your odds are going down. So I believe most of them are truly random but your chances increase with the popularity of a certain game. However, I have played some of these casinos where you will win a little and then the machine will go ice cold until most of your winnings are gone. I do not think there is anything random about that!

[cynthial]

Sweet!
Elizabeth, how much was the jp? Were you able to collect the full amount or were you tied to a max withdrawal amount? Details girl, Damnit, I want details!

[Avatar73]

Zoozie is totally correct.

If what InetBet says is true, then consider this.
They claim that the probability is equal with each spin.
So say the probablility of the RJ was 0.01, and it values at $500, then it is reasonable to see that roughly 100 spins has a good chance of hitting it.

So a highroller, 5$/line x 20 lines = $100 per spin.
100 spins is a cost of 100x100= $10,000 win RJ $500 = LOSS $9,500
(all other things being equal).

Similarly, 1c/line x 1 line = 1c /spin
100 spinds is a cost of 100x1c = $1 win RJ $500 = WIN $499.

So I am afraid I do not see how InetBet can claim that the house edge is constant. If it were me, I would set it up so that probability increases with bet size, so chance at $10 = 0.01 means chance at 1c = 0.00001.

I would be grateful if InetBet could explain how the house edge is the same.

Thanks!

PS I am aware that you should in fact use Prob(not hitting in 100 spins) = 0.366 but I have gone for simplicity here.

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by Avatar73

Zoozie is totally correct.
I would be grateful if InetBet could explain how the house edge is the same.

Thanks for the support!

INetBet asked RTG and I believe some manager at RTG fucked up and misunderstood the answer from the development team (or maybe did not ask them at all).

So do not blame INetBet - they actually tried to solve the puzzle. And they have to believe what RTG tells them.

I saw the Random Jackpot data and they were the 'smoking gun' kind of evidence for my claim. However before I saw the data I was already convinced I was right. However I must not publish the jackpot data.

I know CM also saw them and said they looked fair, but I believe he did a mistake not asking someone qualified to see the data.

Zoozie

[Avatar73]

So the final conclusion is......... ?!

1) non-linear (ie much higher chance with higher bet)
2) linear (higher chance with higher bet)
3) equal (who cares how much you bet)

... and you're saying generally (2) with a little bit of (1) here and there, but never (3) .... ?

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by Avatar73

So the final conclusion is......... ?!

1) non-linear (ie much higher chance with higher bet)
2) linear (higher chance with higher bet)
3) equal (who cares how much you bet)

... and you're saying generally (2) with a little bit of (1) here and there, but never (3) .... ?

That is correct. However (1) is just a slight suspicion I have. (and the data can not show this, would need a gigantic sample. But it shows (3) is not correct.)

But first of all and the most important thing is that what RTG claims can not be right.

So when finally (3) is rejected, then we can start with the (1) or (2).
And with the sale of RTG going on right now (and developers getting fired) this could take a long time, if ever.

We know the casino managers can change the payout% for the slots. But it is a mystery how this is possible without changing the reels. (no reports of anyone ever seeing different reels at RTG casinos).

So all this makes me wonder if RTG slots are indeed 'true' video slots where
the reel does determine the wins. The alternative is that some lottery algorithm determine the win and then find reel showing the win. Because if this is true, then (1) can also be true. However then the situation is much much worse. But all this is PURE SPECULATION, I do not think or hope this is true. Best thing I can compare it to is the 'video poker' at Slotland which is not video poker at all. The results are not determined from a deck of cards.

Sadly, which can be seen in thread, most people do not understand this and they are happy if it just is 'random'.

A die showing
6 50% and
1,2,3,4,5 10% of the time each

that is still 'random', but it is not fair!

Actually you can not use the word RANDOM alone. You need to tell the distribution of the random variable. A normal die is UNIFORM random (all events have same probability etc.). So for this you say it is uniformly random.
And this is what most people actually mean when they say random. If this is not the case then they can say it is weighted at least.

Zoozie

[Simmo!]

Originally Posted by Zoozie

We know the casino managers can change the payout% for the slots. But it is a mystery how this is possible without changing the reels. (no reports of anyone ever seeing different reels at RTG casinos).

If you watch closely you'll often see the reels reset themselves during a spin. Pretty sure this is how they take into account the different payouts. My theory is, if you see a slight "judder" on each reel before they settle, get the hell away from the slot - i's in a bad mood and resetting like mad to avoid paying out

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by Zoozie

some manager at RTG fucked up

Zoozie

Zoozie said the "F" word!!!