RTGs random jackpots-how random??

[Mousey]

Originally Posted by phynqster

It is a completley random jack pot and have seen players hit playing .20 a spin or 100.00. Meaning it is random for the players. What is not random is the Jack pot itself, that is pre set to hit on a certain spin number. That is why you see usually the same amount in the jack pot when it hits. If every player played.20 per spin the jackpot would hit with a low balance like 1000, but if everyone was playing 100.00 per spin than the jackpot could go over 20,000 like I have seen when casinos give huge bonuses. I hope this helps in dis spelling some misbeliefs

Hmmm... if it is set to hit on a certain spin # is this the same # each time a particular slot resets? Or randomly selected by the software after a jp is hit? Is it possible "heijac" may have found a pattern? Or is s/he simply setting Cleo on 20 cents a spin, infinite autoplay, stop on jackpot?

[iNetBet Promos]

Hi everyone,
Different posters have put forward a number of points/theories/speculation in regards to RTG Random Jackpots which I feel need to be clarified.

Firstly I am unsure as to why people would think that a "Random" Jackpot would hit on a given number of spins or be determined by any other factors. As the name suggests this is not the case. These Jackpots hit at random and they are not determined by spins, bet size or any other variable.
If you take a look at the Random Jackpots listed in our previous newsletter iNetBet.com - Newsletter you will see that there are no set values for when a Jackpot will hit, neither is there a given timeframe.

Take for example the Cleopatra’s Gold Jackpot. This has been hit on 14 occasions this year. The full data is as follows:

Machine * Date *Days Prior * Bet * Win

Cleopatra’s Gold * 1/1/06 0:35 * - * 100.00 * 4,718.24
Cleopatra’s Gold * 1/21/06 19:53 * 20 * 10.00 * 5,859.21
Cleopatra’s Gold * 2/18/06 20:26 * 28 * 10.00 * 7,114.38
Cleopatra’s Gold * 3/17/06 10:24 * 27 * 0.20 * 6,321.94
Cleopatra’s Gold * 3/23/06 10:57 * 6 * 5.00 * 2,279.23
Cleopatra’s Gold * 3/25/06 23:20 * 2 * 10.00 * 1,328.83
Cleopatra’s Gold * 4/5/06 7:56 * 11 * 1.00 * 3,892.64
Cleopatra’s Gold * 4/13/06 11:21 * 8 * 10.00 * 2,748.34
Cleopatra’s Gold * 4/22/06 12:02 * 9 * 10.00 * 3,586.83
Cleopatra’s Gold * 5/17/06 6:46 * 25 * 1.00 * 5,165.50
Cleopatra’s Gold * 7/6/06 12:52 * 50 * 2.00 * 13,557.33
Cleopatra’s Gold * 8/3/06 0:11 * 28 * 10.00 * 6,672.42
Cleopatra’s Gold * 8/8/06 0:41 * 5 * 10.00 * 1,958.59
Cleopatra’s Gold * 9/14/06 14:54 * 27 * 10.00 * 8,100.48

As you can see there is no set figure for when the Jackpot will hit. What would be the point in having a Random Jackpot that hit in and around a given figure? As chuchu59 says nobody would play the Jackpot until this figure was reached.
You can also see that there is no set amount of spins needed for the Jackpot to hit. I included the Days Prior information to show more clearly the timeframe in between wins. The data shows that there was a gap of as little as 2 days and a max period of 50 days in between the Jackpot hitting on this particular machine. The number of spins, in between all of the above hits, was different. The figures presented show too that the Jackpot has hit on a wide variety of bet sizes from as little as 20c to $100.

As I said previously these Jackpots are totally random and anyone at any time can hit them. This is regardless of bet size, Jackpot size, amount of spins or time prior from the last Jackpot hitting.

I hope that this clears things up for everyone.
iNetBet Promos

[Zoozie]

I must thank you for providing the data, I wish more RTG data was avaliable (like payout%). And I sure your data are real and they actually prove one of the speculations raised here.

Originally Posted by iNetBet Promos

These Jackpots hit at random and they are not determined by spins, bet size or any other variable.

You say bet size as no influence on hitting the jackpot, but I am 100% convinced you are wrong. You can claim that even a small bet has a chance to hit the jackpot, but you can not claim that it has no influence on the probability for hitting it.

And even the data you provided actually proves you wrong. 9 out of 14 jackpot wins (64%) of the jackpot wins was at bet size 10$ or more. If it had no influence this would mean that 64% of the bets on slot are at a total bet of 10$ or more statistically. This is because the sample would then simple be uniformly distributed over all bets. I find it impossible to believe that 64% or more of the bets on slots are 10$ or higher.

For Intercasino the chance of hitting the jackpot is proportional to the bet size and this is good, because it means payout% is the same.
p(x)=probability for hitting jackpot
x=bet size
p(x)=k*x

You claim that for RTG casinos the formular is:
p(x)=k

For RTG jackpots I do not even believe the function is proportional.
Ie p(x) =k*exp (x) or p(x)=k*x^2
And it is extremely unfair not telling the players this because this means
payout% of the slots is not constant for different bet-sizes. This is the big issue I have been raising in this thread.

If you statement was true dont you think the jackpot could be exploited by autospinning at bet 0.01$ (1 line at minimum bet) ? And betting 0.01$ would give the best payout% in that case.


Zoozie

[Scampo]

Totally random but $10 seems a good bet size!

[iNetBet Promos]

I knew that someone would jump onto my post with some form of statistical analysis.

Thanks for your feedback Zoozie however I can assure you that the Jackpot is random and not dependant on Bet size.
Please remember that you do not have all of the variables i.e you do not know how many spins were made at each individual bet size etc
If 70% of spins were at $10, 10% at $1, 10% at $2, 5% at $100 and 5% at 20c then what you are saying would not be correct.
I have only provided a small section of data from one particular machine. You cannot apply your formulae to this small sample as it is not perfect data.

I could have provided you with data from a different game which showed the majority of the jackpots being hit from 1c bets. In fact our Caesars Empire Random Jackpot has only ever hit at the $1 denomination. That is not to say that tomorrow it will not hit at 20c or $10.
However as Cleopatra’s was the game in question earlier in the thread this was the data I thought most prudent to post.

As I posted previously the Random Jackpots are just that, Random. Bet size has no influence.

Best Regards
iNetBet Promos

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by iNetBet Promos

Thanks for your feedback Zoozie however I can assure you that the Jackpot is random and not dependant on Bet size.

Thank you for responding. I can garantie you that I am not on RTG rambling mode, but I actually believe I have a case.

Try look at the jackpot wins from other slots and if shows 50%+ of the jackpot wins was on bet 10$ or more, you know you are wrong.

But even the small sample show 60% bets of 10$ or more and I believe
only 10% (at MOST!!!! probably a lot less) of the bets on slots are 10$ or more, so even this sample would then be mathematically very very unlikely. So I actually believe your sample to be sufficient. However just giving is a few sample for other slots more would settle this argument forever.

However you should be arguing that chance of winning the jackpot is liniear (proportional) to bet-size, because that is actually the most fair method (But I still do not believe this to be true for RTG). I am surprised you defend a unsymmetric distribution that actually screw high-rollers.

You do realize that IF the probablily for winning the jackpot does not depend on bet size, then the slot would have maximum payout% at bet 0.01$?

Lets say the jackpot is 4000$. This means the jackpot could cover 400000 spins (0.4M) alone on bet 0.01$. But remember the paytable from the reels also contribute. So with a bankroll of 4000$ you will have have about 4M spins before going bust if the payout is as low as 90% without the jackpot. So if the 'constant' probablity for winning the jackpot is higher than 1 to 4M then the slot would have 100+% payout (if base paytable from reels gives 90% payout which is a low estimate).

I really hope the chance for hitting the jackpot is higher than 1 to 4M....

Anyone not conviced yet?

Zoozie

[KathyK]

My mom hit 2 rapid fire jackpots in 2 weeks time at Intercasino. She was only spinning 45 cents a spin. I've been playing there for 2 years and haven't hit one yet!! LOL

[silcnlayc]

As I posted previously the Random Jackpots are just that, Random. Bet size has no influence.

I have also been playing the RTG random jackpots for YEARS on different denominations from $.20-$5.00 but could never bring myself to play $10 EVER. So as Zoozie says

Anyone not conviced yet?

I have believed it for a long time that the higher the denomination played the more apt it is to pay off so , I don't think it's that random.

The other reason for this belief is, I also play at Intercasino, Sands of the Caribbean, and have hit MANY rapid fire jackpots ranging from $500-$1400 with wagering spins ranging from $.90-2.25, and NEVER had to bet any higher. Now this is called RANDOM, not as your stats show, just 1 winner out of many that bet under $10 ...that is called appeasing the masses with a token in my opinion.

In fact our Caesars Empire Random Jackpot has only ever hit at the $1

This is intersting to know, for my husband has played this NON stop for as long as it has been offered and he has NEVER hit this (almost like 24/7 player on this) for thats how much he liked it and he never could bring himself to go over the $5.00 mark either....random? I think not, for how does one hit this random jackpot 2-3 times in a month (with higher denominations?) if others that are playing for a longer period ( with lower bets?) can not?

The odds just aren't lining up or something here...and that is as good a reason to stop playing heavily at any RTG in my opinion as I need.

[lovetogamble]

....random? I think not, for how does one hit this random jackpot 2-3 times in a month (with higher denominations?) if others that are playing for a longer period ( with lower bets?) can not?

My thoughts exactly!

Now if this person had hit 3 jackpots on the same day playing then I could possible understand that maybe they were playing at a time when the slots were all hitting. BUT for the same person to hit 3 jackpots days aparts (and no one else hit the random jackpot between their 3 hits) is just plain fishy to me and all three hits won on $10 bets.

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by iNetBet Promos

I knew that someone would jump onto my post with some form of statistical analysis.

Thanks for your feedback Zoozie however I can assure you that the Jackpot is random and not dependant on Bet size.
Please remember that you do not have all of the variables i.e you do not know how many spins were made at each individual bet size etc
If 70% of spins were at $10, 10% at $1, 10% at $2, 5% at $100 and 5% at 20c then what you are saying would not be correct.
I have only provided a small section of data from one particular machine. You cannot apply your formulae to this small sample as it is not perfect data.

I could have provided you with data from a different game which showed the majority of the jackpots being hit from 1c bets. In fact our Caesars Empire Random Jackpot has only ever hit at the $1 denomination. That is not to say that tomorrow it will not hit at 20c or $10.
However as Cleopatra’s was the game in question earlier in the thread this was the data I thought most prudent to post.

As I posted previously the Random Jackpots are just that, Random. Bet size has no influence.

Best Regards
iNetBet Promos

To quell their doubts, can you show us the stats for other random JP slots like Fruit Frenzy, Goldbeard and Ronin. Statiscally, the more info the better.