Amazing, just an amazing article

[The Watchdog]

As I said before.. its an excellent view of the problem...

Gambling is bad, fun and won't dissappear... Applying those policies the US goverment is applying will only end in more unregulated business... Bookies will be back to the streets and more problems will be caused. Not mentioning how the american gambling community might feel regarding their so called "freedom". I am sure most of them are not feeling comfortable with some guys telling you where you can or can't spend your money or which sites you can or can't visit. Online gambling is becoming like the Internet's Cuba. A place and activity they don't want you to know about or do business with... To dangerous for "our citizens"... or is it our precious green dollars??

[Rusty]

By the way online gambling is not regulated in the UK though there is a push to have it regulated 2007
It is currently illegal to run an online gambling company from the UK as with all online Casinos the servers are based off shore and in dark corners to avoid tax and regulation. (not that online gambling is still a shady practice
One thing that still amazes most Brits about the American lobbiest who want Gambling banned is that they refuse to learn from history.Regulating it is the sensible way forward but as an asside once it is regulated and Taxed by the US goverment will you be any the wiser to which terrorist group/freedom fighters your tax dollars will fund?

[guesswest]

This whole notion of profits from online gaming funding terrorist organizations and the like is just complete and utter BS. Not only is it BS but it's BS that reinvents itself taking into consideration what's topical/politically useful. I seem to remember online gaming was funding Columbian druglords and sex-trafficking a few years back.

Linking money in international business with any organization you like is childishly easy, it's like playing the 6 degrees of seperation game with actors (only way easier). You could just as easily 'link' the Catholic church, Krispy Kremes or NASCAR with Hezbollah.

Prohibiting online gaming is solely about tax money. And that's FINE, maybe that's a good reason to ban it, there's certainly an argument to be made there. But why can't this society have some honest debate and just say that's what it is, instead of utilizing all these contrived, fictional and totally ridiculous arguments. It's just total BS all of it and it's what makes me despair of politics.

[The Watchdog]

I agree 100% with you...

Its the policy of fear. What they do is link everything they don't approve or like with topics like terrorism, drugs, child abuse, etc.

They only reason why they are fighting to ban online gambling is because they are not taking their cut of the cake. Simple as that.

Regarding compulsive gambling, lotteries and horse racing cause the same effect. How many people expend thousands of dollars a month on state lotteries?? But thats ok, since the goverment is proffiting from it.

The US just likes to be on control of everything, since they are not controlling the gambling business; the show it to the people as a major threat

[jetset]

This whole notion of profits from online gaming funding terrorist organizations and the like is just complete and utter BS. Not only is it BS but it's BS that reinvents itself taking into consideration what's topical/politically useful. I seem to remember online gaming was funding Columbian druglords and sex-trafficking a few years back.

Linking money in international business with any organization you like is childishly easy, it's like playing the 6 degrees of seperation game with actors (only way easier). You could just as easily 'link' the Catholic church, Krispy Kremes or NASCAR with Hezbollah.

Prohibiting online gaming is solely about tax money. And that's FINE, maybe that's a good reason to ban it, there's certainly an argument to be made there. But why can't this society have some honest debate and just say that's what it is, instead of utilizing all these contrived, fictional and totally ridiculous arguments. It's just total BS all of it and it's what makes me despair of politics.

That's a thoughtful post with which I am generally in agreement, Guestwest, but I think the motivation behind these repeated US attempts to cripple or ban online gambling is more varied than the tax cake.

I think the legislators are strongly influenced by powerful interest groups and their desire to be perceived as politically correct (which probably applies to most politicians, everywhere LOL!)

It's a fine line they tread between religious zealots and very powerful political contributors like the horse racing, Indian casinos and sports lobbies and I believe that is evidenced by the constant wheeling and dealing and hypocritical carve-outs as we go through this snake dance every year. Up to now that has worked for the industry, because the various interests often pulled in opposite directions.

Complicating the issue is the position of the major land casino interests (although they seem to be moving more toward regulation these days as the industry goes through the $12 billion mark and still gathers steam) and the different attitudes of diverse US state governments that have themselves their own *special* interests like Indian gaming and lotteries, and jealously guard their state rights.

Online gambling, especially in the aftermath of the political embarrassment of lobbying scandals such as the Abramoff affair is a high profile target where the *moral* positions of politicians can safey be strutted imo.

Few of these politicians have thus far supported a bi-partisan Congressional investigation before deciding that the industry is bad for American morals/funds terrorism/drugs/is run by the mob etc etc. How sensible is that - trying to kill something without first taking an objective look at it?

Why are the numerous player polls that overwhelmingly call for regulation rather than prohibition in the States ignored?

I suspect it is because these guys know that such an investigation will show that the bulk of the industry has highly trackable systems that pretty much comply with international moneylaundering requirements demanded by the FATF. That the c/card chargeback ratio is lower than most other Internet businesses and that regulation could have a beneficial impact for the player....but possibly not for competing interests.

I think they know that the US players would be better served by large American or American domiciled groups operating under strict state regulation and that those groups would thrive.

The question is: do they really care?

[guesswest]

A lot of good points there. You're right I was being a bit simplistic/myopic with my OP. I was mostly just expressing my irritation at the whole terrorism and criminality thing that permeates this debate.

You're right that the religious right has some bearing on this issue, especially under the current administration and political climate. I don't think the religious right is really at odds with state interests like lotteries/horse racing etc tho. Both of these groups have a shared interest in suppressing online gaming, albeit for very different reasons. It's probably in fact that dichotomy which propels this debate in the realm of BS, because neither side can express their actual reasons without also attacking a group co-supporting legislation like HR 4777 on the other side of the fence.

Nevertheless, for all the myriad interests here, anti-gambling legislation would have no chance of getting thru the house (nevermind the senate) on idealogical objections alone. It's a financial issue at heart and that's where I feel it has teeth. And as I said in my last post, that's ok, maybe an inability to tax online gaming is a reasonable reason to prohibit it. I'm not arguing that position, but I'm sure there's an argument to be made. The US economy could certainly use a boost after 6 years of disastrous fiscal policy. I just wish we could have that debate instead of throwing around ridiculous red herrings like the notion that online gaming is funding terrorism.

[jetset]

You're right - and the irony is that taxing the really significant portions of the industry (ie those prepared to domicile in the USA and be taxed in return for legality and regulation) would not be difficult once the infrastructure was in place, given the sophisticated nature of admin technology in the business.

Spokesmen for major companies like Sportingbet have already said they would prefer regulation and taxation in the USA rather than the status quo and there will undoubtedly be others who weigh this practicality against the very attractive American market.

If regulation were to happen, offshore operations unwilling to go after licensing in major markets offering it like the UK would soon feel the icy winds of departing business, because as I said earlier it is likely that gamblers in those countries will feel happier with well regulated and honest operations than those which present the player hassles we see on the Complaints section here all too often.

Leave the right to legislate in the States where it belongs - with the states. Nevada has already come very close to legalising, which threw the feds into something of a tizzy and I think the big land casino companies would relish the chance to access these tempting revenue streams - MGM's Lanni said so just recently.

Unfortunately logic does not seem to apply to these politicians with their diverse agendas, and we are likely to see a continuation of the hypocrisy that plagues this area.

[Rusty]

Personaly I was just being mischievous

[guesswest]

We realized that Or I certainly did, think the others did also. I think cslate was joking too, tho it's a bit hard to tell with the confusing grammar.

But this linking of gaming money to criminal activity/terrorism/satan is a very real part of political theater in the US, that's all I was commenting on really.

[Rusty]

Yes sorry as an "outsider" I am little removed from such theatre.
I guess the Goverments of the World will always need to blame somebody else for the ills of the World and the media is always a favourite target whether that media is TV, computer games, internet or any other type of media you care to think of.It is the age old trick of goverment by distraction.
Personaly I think that political scandals only come to light to cover up the "real truth." (pinch of salt)