32Red & Western Union they knew what they were doing

[duke7123]

32Red knew all along what they were doing to get money and to go so far as to violate any and all rules and or policies of Western Union and or its Affiliants. I thought all along that I was sending money to 32Red until I was blocked, then Pat phoned me and told me that it was not employees of 32Red it was a service, picking up funds and giving then to 32Red. The story is as follows and it is the truth!!!!!!!!!

Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Western Union are in no way affliliated in the sale or purchase of goods or services or any payments relating to online gambling
In your emails you claim that it pertains to “Internet and that 32Red is not in any way breaking any rules that Fexco, Western Union, or Firstdatacorp as set fourth, with respect to their policies. The email as stated below is very contrary to that statement. Moreover please note some of what my attorney’s have found. That 32Red knowingly and still put a link to make deposits even from online, not to mention that 32Red was aware of Western Union and any affiliates policies. After clicking on the link provided by 32Red which is known to be their information up to include knowing it was wrong. When you click on the link it takes you to a Western Union home page and under the terms and conditions it’s very clear that 32Red knew what they were doing, and clearly condoning the Violation of western Union’s and or any of its affiliates policies. E.G. "prohibited purpose" refers to any unlawful purpose; the purpose of making or receiving payment for gambling services, gambling chips or gambling credits; the purpose of making or receiving payment for banking or other financial services; or the purpose of sending a payment to yourself as the recipient; Western Union strictly prohibits the use of its Internet service to directly or indirectly fund illegal Internet gambling and/or illegal activities. But you post a link direct to Western Union online site?

As you can see by 32Reds effort to link a Western Unions and or its affiliates and coupled with the fact that before one send’s fund’s via the link that 32Red provided for online “Internet Gambling” the statement is very clear by Western Union and all of its affiliates. E.G. You can deposit via this website using your Credit Card from USA/Canada and UK, or from any Money Transfer agent worldwide. One can point to the link and see that it is a Western Union link “ONLINE LINK” not just an agent of any Western Unions and or any of its affiliates.

Pat so it seems that I have been correct all along and that your people that do not view it that way must be wrong. When it is clear and without dispute that 32Red has condone any and all policies of Western Union and or its affiliates. To that end it makes no sense why what is touted, by many that 32Red is a good and upfront honest and do nothing wrong site appears lurking behind the scenes, they will allow anything to get peoples money. In no means is this email to slander with malice 32Red and if one is stating the truth, there is in fact no slander or deformation of anyone’s character.



By virtue of all of the evidence we have gathered that 32Red knew all along what they were doing is more than enough to show cause that they have some serious issues here. That you should not burden all of this alone.

Pat I really don’t understand why you would email this below and the make the statement that you’re fully aware of and then you post a link and I quote as posted on your site and or was “You can deposit via this website using your Credit Card from USA/Canada and UK, or from any Money Transfer agent worldwide.”



Another email that you sent me which I just can’t understand as well nor can my attorney’s as to why you have the western Union link and then tell me all of this stuff below?

EMAIL FROM PAT HARRISON

I’ll try to explain the situation that we are faced with, and hopefully you will understand why this problem occurs.

The transactions that the ‘receivers’ at our Western Union agents receive are classed by Western Union as ‘personal’ transactions. When Western Union believe that these ‘personal’ receivers are receiving too many transactions either from the same ‘sender’ or ‘sending agency’ then they block the transactions and prevent these individuals from being receivers. They do this as part of their Money Laundering Policies. As a practice to adopt it is a sound and understandable one. The difficulty comes in that Western Union does not communicate any of these actions in advance; the first that our receiving agents know about it is when the transactions are blocked. This is what has happened in the last two days; firstly with Ivan Docampo and then Brian Hutchison. Whilst we are informed of these changes as soon as our agents are aware of them, it can be too late for some transactions such as yours. We do keep the details on the web-site up to date, so it maybe worth checking these prior to sending any funds in the future. We are looking at ways of setting ourselves up as agents so as to overcome these problems and make the service far more streamlined; this, however, will take some time to organise.

I hope that explains the recent confusion, but if you need any clarification on it then don’t hesitate to contact me.

I’ll credit your account with $300 now, on the house, so that you may at least enjoy some spins today.

Thanks for your patience, apologies for all the confusion and I wish you the best of the luck!

Kind regards,

Pat Harrison
Operations Director
32Red Casino | 32Red Poker


Pat's comments as posted on here in the thread: Up until 28/2/06 we had a link on our site to the WU homepage. This was placed so that any player wishing to use this service could easily find their local agents. Anybody clicking on this link would have seen the relevant Terms and Conditions of the service, namely that it cannot be used for the purposes of ‘illegal internet gambling’. As I have stated before, we are not an illegal internet gambling site.

Then if you were aware of Western Unions Policies why would you Ed and Pat post a link here and I “Quote” make deposits from anywhere in the world.

Deposit Limits None from the company handling the money transfer. The maximum daily deposit accepted by 32Red Casino and 32Red Poker will be USD $5,000 or currency equivalent. We reserve the right to reject any transactions over this amount which have not had prior approval from our Finance Department.
How to send your funds via Money Transfer You can deposit via this website using your Credit Card from USA/Canada and UK, or from any Money Transfer agent worldwide.

For further information please contact us via email, Live Chat or Phone.

What to do after payment is made Once you have made your transaction, either online or via a Money Transfer agent, you must email us at accounts@32red.com with the following information:

Payment sent to: Representative's Name
Payment sent from:
Currency Used:
Amount:
Money Transfer Control Number (MCTN):
32Red Account Number:
For Credit of: (Poker/Casino account)
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Western Union are in no way affliliated in the sale or purchase of goods or services or any paymentsrelating to online gambling




Email from Pat Harrison: This is turning into a right royal cock-up!

The restriction on use is something that we are fully aware of. The key point within this is the phrase ‘illegal internet gambling’ and I believe it is in there to prevent US residents from using Western Union to fund any sports betting activity which is viewed as being illegal under the Wire Act. However gaming (casino and poker) isn’t covered by the Wire Act and is therefore allowed. Added to this is the definition and interpretation of ‘illegal’. 32Red are a licenced operation and therefore cannot be viewed as being illegal.

I hope that helps and I am not sure as to why all of a sudden this is becoming a major issue.

Did try to call again but still no answer.



Kind regards,

Pat Harrison
Operations Director
32Red Casino | 32Red Poker
Casinomeister Best Casino 2003, 2004 & 2005



Anna, Western Union I have just received a email from the site and they are telling me that all they can see is “ CASINO REPLY “All that I can see in this forwarded document relates to the Internet Service offered by Western Union.”

So again what they are saying is that it is ok to send money to their Western Union agent and that agent will pass along to them the money one send’s to do ”ONLINE GAMBLING” as you might be aware there are many sites like this. I would send it to a person that I don’t know which they meaning the casino site have given me several names, and then that person will pass it on to them. The part that really concerns me is that these people that they gave me the names of don’t even work for the casino site. I guess they have some arrangement with Western Union there for these people to pick up the funds and then give it to them, meaning the casino. The key question is online western union and the policy of Western Union does not apply to local walk in agents as a sender to a receiver for gambling purposes is that ok to send funds that way from any part of the world and then be passed on to a gambling site.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: WU UK.Customer [mailto:uk.customer@westernunion.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 1:27 AM
To: John
Subject: RE: Need Information Western Union Fexco Attn: Supervisor ANNA OP 617 6-2-06 Please reply

Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Western Union are in no way affliliated in the sale or purchase of goods or services or any payments relating to online gambling
Kind regards,
Anna, op. 617
www.westernunion.co.uk



Banking Services | How to Deposit | How to Withdraw your Winnings


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Money Transfer
Deposit Method Money Transfer

Depositing Currencies Any - All payments will be received by us in GBP. Your account will be credited with the currency equivalent using the prevailing rate as published on www.oanda.com.

Applicable Countries Worldwide

Time frame for funding deposit option Instantly on confirmation of transaction by the company handling the money transfer.

Please bear in mind that Money Transfer transactions will ONLY be credited to accounts during Finance Dept working hours (07:00 - 19:00 GMT, every day). Any funds deposited outside this time will be credited at the earliest available opportunity thereafter.

Deposit Option Transaction Fees Standard Money Transfer fees apply.

Deposit Limits None from the company handling the money transfer. The maximum daily deposit accepted by 32Red Casino and 32Red Poker will be USD $5,000 or currency equivalent. We reserve the right to reject any transactions over this amount which have not had prior approval from our Finance Department.

How to send your funds via Money Transfer You can deposit via this website using your Credit Card from USA/Canada and UK, or from any Money Transfer agent worldwide.

For further information please contact us via email, Live Chat or Phone.

What to do after payment is made Once you have made your transaction, either online or via a Money Transfer agent, you must email us at accounts@32red.com with the following information:

Payment sent to: Representative's Name
Payment sent from:
Currency Used:
Amount:
Money Transfer Control Number (MCTN):
32Red Account Number:
For Credit of: (Poker/Casino account)

Time before funds reflect in your Casino/Poker account Variable - Once funds have been cleared by the company handling the Money Transfer.


Sorry Pat but you and Pinababy69 gave me no option.

Duke

[GemG7]

So how many more threads will you start about your issues with WU?

[duke7123]

Sorry but very new to tis but have never named the casino and give my side.

Duke

[Pinababy69]

Well, Duke you have interrupted a perfectly enjoyable (and profitable) gaming session at 32Red.

Originally Posted by duke7123

Sorry but very new to tis but have never named the casino and give my side.

Duke

Please stop playing the innocent victim, cause it's getting on my last nerve. You are NOT new to this, this is the 7th thread that you have used to trumpet your issues with Western Union. And I have brought it to your attention before, and you used the same lame excuse then, that you didn't know what you were doing. You knew EXACTLY what you were doing Duke. The other thread you started today entitled "Western Union" just wasn't getting the exposure and comments you hoped for...so hey, maybe if I start a new one with a big thumbs down, and 32Red in the subject title, I'll get some attention. Pull your innocent shit with someone else, I'm not buying it.

As to that drivel you've posted up top, I've read it three times now, and see nothing earth shattering nor any new info that hasn't already been discussed and addressed in the other thread.

And once again, you've managed to sidestep and avoid the very direct question I posed to you in the other thread, and that I also see Chuchu has asked. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT???? Your name has been cleared with Western Union. The casino has come clean and made a statement. What are you after? I have a pretty good idea, but seeing as it is only an assumption on my part, I will refrain from posting it...lest you get your lawyers after my ass and accuse me of slander. God forbid.

Okay, off to look after my daughter, then back to my playing. Hey Duke, I guess you don't wanna see any of my winning screenshots eh?

[duke7123]

unlike you are willing to give others and their thoughts but hey that is ok and I will reframe from making any comments about you in a negitive manner. because I don't know you and sometimes as they say the truth hurts. I will say that I am after nothing it would have been better as Pat said between him and me but you would not leave it alone. So have a great night and thanks for your comments.

Duke

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by duke7123

I will say that I am after nothing
Duke

If you're after nothing, why 7 threads of nothing? Duke, you make zero sense, absolutely none. Your goals are accomplished, you can use Western Union, the casino has made a public statement addressing all the issues..yet you still start a new thread. Don't tell me you're after nothing. You're almost too silly to even debate with, you know that?

If I could have given you reputation, I would have deducted from your total, and you would have become part of the Less Than Zero club. Unfortunately, I've thanked too many people in the last 24 hours for valuable, important posts and am not allowed to do anymore.

[duke7123]

Did not give the entire story! Am I not entitled to give my side as well? I though this was a 2 way street? Or am I wrong. I want nothing from them and until now I have just posted 32Reds name am I not entitled to that my side? You ar very bias and that I can understand giving the relastionship with them. But hey give me the right to tell my side. Pat told his so why can't I?

Wow

Duke

[Pinababy69]

But that's the whole point, you haven't told anything. Nothing new anyway. You deposited via Western Union, Western Union red flagged you for whatever reason and now you want the casino to take the blame?

Do you think you're the only person who ever used Western Union to deposit? Do you think that 32Red is/was the only casino to accept Western Union deposits?

The casino has not broken any laws that govern them, what part of that don't you get? I'm gonna go talk to my dog for a while, try and get my sanity back.

[duke7123]

Read here Pat comments:

We did experience problems with the service that we offered back in March this year. Also email to me from Pat so why do you blame me? I don't run the casino.

I’ll try to explain the situation that we are faced with, and hopefully you will understand why this problem occurs.

The transactions that the ‘receivers’ at our Western Union agents receive are classed by Western Union as ‘personal’ transactions. When Western Union believe that these ‘personal’ receivers are receiving too many transactions either from the same ‘sender’ or ‘sending agency’ then they block the transactions and prevent these individuals from being receivers. They do this as part of their Money Laundering Policies. As a practice to adopt it is a sound and understandable one. The difficulty comes in that Western Union does not communicate any of these actions in advance; the first that our receiving agents know about it is when the transactions are blocked. This is what has happened in the last two days; firstly with Ivan Docampo and then Brian Hutchison. Whilst we are informed of these changes as soon as our agents are aware of them, it can be too late for some transactions such as yours. We do keep the details on the web-site up to date, so it maybe worth checking these prior to sending any funds in the future. We are looking at ways of setting ourselves up as agents so as to overcome these problems and make the service far more streamlined; this, however, will take some time to organise.

What part of this don't you get? Pat even says that many of their agents which they were not agents the were hired hands to pass money fro receiving to giving for a fee to the casino. You really don't have a clue as to what is going to happen next e.g.Eco Card

But Thanks for your comments

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by duke7123

What part of this don't you get? Pat even says that many of their agents which they were not agents the were hired hands to pass money fro receiving to giving for a fee to the casino. You really don't have a clue as to what is going to happen next e.g.Eco Card

But Thanks for your comments

I'd be curious how Ladbroke's does it. Speaking from personal experience, for three years when I deposited via Western Union, those casinos used third party receivers, exactly as 32Red did. The receiver names changed every time I called in to get one. I very rarely had the same name twice in three years. I've also deposited via Western Union to VIP Casinos (cashed out 7K too, lol), another reputable casino, also with a third party receiver. This is common practice Duke, it is how it's done.

But using your argument, why did you continue to deposit in your wife's name after you WERE informed of the third parties being used? And don't insult my intelligence and say you didn't know any better. Cause I have one word for that....bullshit. Western Union cut you off using your own name, don't tell me that didn't send up huge red flags in your mind. Again, I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but again an assumption. I'll put it politely, you wanted to play, end of story. The casino accomodated you, rightly or wrongly. Now you want them to take the all the flak because Western Union red flagged you.

Isn't it funny how of all the people who deposited at 32Red using Western Union, and there's alot that I know personally, you're the only one on here posting this crap. Obviously, none of them had your problems, or if they did, they handled it privately with the casino.

I see from your original post and the casino correspondence that you posted....that in addition to your locked funds being credited to your account, Pat threw you a $300 comp. What an asshole he is. Christ, he should be tarred and feathered. You know what you are Duke? You are an ingrate.