Summary of English Harbour situation

[Linus]

I posted a summary of the English Harbour situation over at 2+2. I was hoping some of you would take a look at it, and tell me if it's more or less correct.

Thanks!

Oops. (duh): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post5974831

[thelawnet]

Seems a bit early for a summary. Best wait till Spearmaster's statement on Monday.... The thread here on the complaints forum has already been locked till then.

[caruso]

Well done, Linus.

Only mistake is it's Shakleford, not Shackleton.

Some rather bonehead replies though. Somebody could do worse than addressing them - I don't have an account there.

BTW - brilliant "bonus link".

[Linus]

Thanks. I'll have to edit the "Shackleton" thing. Thanks for pointing it out.


Lawnet: I really think it's about over, don't you?

I mean, spearmaster has already said what he's going to say, hasn't he?

[jetset]

Originally Posted by Linus

Thanks. I'll have to edit the "Shackleton" thing. Thanks for pointing it out.


Lawnet: I really think it's about over, don't you?

I mean, spearmaster has already said what he's going to say, hasn't he?

I'm in London at present on the move so forgive me if I don't immediately respond to any replies to this.

Guys, this need not "be over" as you put it until you are satisfied, or are unable in practical terms to take the matter any further.

Starting another thread here when the original one has been locked because our host wishes to await the issue of Spear's report is simply creating more noise without meaningful activity on your part. By meaningful I mean gathering the evidence you have been so insistent is required, as opposed to simply posting your views.

Personally, I am confident that Spear will provide a professional summary which I can trust, but we will all make our own decisions as individuals on the acceptability or otherwise of his findings (and for that matter The Wizard's) and obviously some of you have already formed pretty concrete opinions of your own anyway.

One thing I can't help noticing is the lack of real action from those of you who are clearly convinced that EH is crooked. This is not meant to be a provocative statement, but you have vigorously, even aggressively exercised your right to express an opinion on the incident, its possible (probable?) roots and even the capabilities of the unfortunate Spearmaster.

But I don't see any of you following up with the action you have demanded Spear take for you ie trying to get the 3 year logs and directly asking questions you feel have not been adequately addressed.

Spear has on several occasions pointed out that he does not speak for EH, so it can't be that that is holding you back. If you believe these 3 years worth of logs and their detailed interpretation is essential perhaps you should be taking the initiative and requesting a seperate approach from EH here?

If they refuse, you will feel to some extent that your opinions have been vindicated. If they do produce them you will have achieved one of your goals and will be able to assess the material and report back to the various boards where you are posting on this issue.

This way you establish your own enquiry and can directly ask all the questions and address the postulations you were firing at Spear in the original thread.

Before you pour scorn on this suggestion on the grounds that EH management might ignore you, why not give it a try? And bear in mind that this group is now a subsidiary of a larger and publicly listed group.

[derelict]

Jetset, I will refrain from responding per CM's wishes, but while highly unprecedented, the suggestion of taking the issue up with them directly may be a reasonable one.

PM sent to the rep listed here. Both the join and activity date are recent, so perhaps they will listen.

[dominique]

I have not posted on the matter or blacklisted the software because I like to see all available facts first.

And no, I don't advertise them at this time anyway nor do I have any type of relationship with them, in case you are one of the people who like to scream about "vested interest".

And if I did advertise them, I would be even more interested in the truth. Got to know just who you are dealing with before making business decisions.

I have confidence in Spear as well as Michael and am patient and waiting. I don't want to rush any type analysis.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by Linus

I posted a summary of the English Harbour situation over at 2+2. I was hoping some of you would take a look at it, and tell me if it's more or less correct.

Thanks!

Oops. (duh): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post5974831

Just stepping in for a moment on a Sunday.

If this is a summary of the EH situation in a nutshell, well you're only offering half the shell. You didn't mention that EH admitted that their first statement was in error since they initially analyzed the wrong information. You ought to know know that using the term "fixed" software is a lot different than uploading the "wrong" codes. I'm really dismayed that you feel you need to bait a thread with comments that can poison objective thinking.

You also failed to mention that the EH thread was temporarily locked because members of this forum were not exercising restraint concerning this issue. You make it seem that this is a finished case, and that I'm trying to censor everyone. Thanks a whole hell of a lot.

[soflat]

jetset,

I don't remember anyone demanding the Spearmaster get the logs. EH is reading the thread and was directly asked to supply them. It has been the Wizard of Odds job to analyze logs and ensure fair gameplay. Spearmaster's report will not address the root problem if the logs are not analyzed. EH and The Wizard already agreed that the logs should be analyzed.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by jetset

Spear has on several occasions pointed out that he does not speak for EH, so it can't be that that is holding you back. If you believe these 3 years worth of logs and their detailed interpretation is essential perhaps you should be taking the initiative and requesting a seperate approach from EH here?

As mentioned above, people have been appealing to EH directly but the only responses so far have been from Spearmaster.

I don't see that a few people trying to recover logs is the way forward. It's bad enough trying to get logs from a casino for a recent session of play - logs going back over a year are going to be a nightmare to recover even if you know the exact dates and times you played. Then assuming the data's available it's quite possible that there'll be too few results to say anything statistically significant.

EH on the other hand can almost certainly provide the full information with a minimum of time or effort (if it's not incorporated into the audit software I'm sure a routine to automate reporting on doubling could be hacked up in minutes). The April figures were quickly produced, after all. Actually I'd be amazed if EH don't already have all the figures in front of them (surely you'd check to see if there was any risk to your business) - if they show nothing wrong then surely it would be in their best interest to provide them to players?