Foreign Currency Bonus Discussion

[spearmaster]

The simple fact of the matter is that bonus hunting can be very profitable if you are very tight with your play. Naturally, to add to your advantage, you would use the largest possible currency unit to start with, because ultimately if you know you have a very good chance of cashing out ahead, the more valuable the currency, the more you make.

Unless online casinos get their acts together and figure out that the bonus industry is an overall LOSER for them, nothing will change. Instead, casinos prefer to churn people through their systems, and then pick out those they don't like and make it as hard as possible for them to collect their winnings.

Not all online casinos are like this - but it goes without saying that the majority of online casinos today continue to employ this type of tactic.

To put it bluntly, this sucks.

Until the industry devises a bonus system which benefits returning players rather than new players, this will unfortunately always be the case - but they have no one except themselves to blame - especially if they overstep their boundaries and eventually find themselves on the Rogue List.

[soflat]

Originally Posted by suzecat

Evidently there are some people whose existence is predicated on how much they can screw with these same T&Cs to get some [undeserved] cash. Online gambling is supposed to be FUN..........why do some people get so involved you'd think their life was dependant on it?

Why should someone in the UK get 70% more bonus money than folks in the USA? Should we be penalized? Don't they want our business as much as the Brits? Are Americans less deserving?

The simple solution for casinos that really care, is to even the playing field and offer everyone the same amount.

I really don't think it is a big deal to most casinos, but they found that advantage players (aka bonus abusers) tend to play in the currency affording them the highest advantage.

[spearmaster]

Why should someone in the UK get 70% more bonus money than folks in the USA? Should we be penalized? Don't they want our business as much as the Brits? Are Americans less deserving?

Because their risk is 70% higher.

It all boils down to what kind of stakes you want to play for, provided the casino doesn't mind. Obviously, with a bonus to be had which can give the player an edge on the house, the player will choose the highest stake possible.

[bb1webs]

I have no doubt why a casino's T&Cs read like the Library of Congress. Evidently there are some people whose existence is predicated on how much they can screw with these same T&Cs to get some [undeserved] cash. Online gambling is supposed to be FUN..........why do some people get so involved you'd think their life was dependant on it?

though a bit off-subject I'd like to reply since I've given it so much thought. .... mostly due the fact that I find it interesting people are willing to go thru so much shit to get over on a casino for a hundred bucks ... or even $500 ...

I'm living proof your time is much better spent pursuing a more ... profitable existence than what you could ever make chasing bonuses to try and get over on the casinos ..... and I don't care if you hit every casino twice around ...

anyway I suppose it has to do with the casinos being viewed as entities of evil background looking to do evil ... and using the enticement of free money as a means of doing so... and the bonus chasers view it as ... beating the devil ... so to speak.
The rest are just a bunch of cheapies looking to get free crumbs falling from the rest of society's plate. And its fun for either group to pursue such matters.

I have no real problem with that until comes a time when either break across the lines of good and honorable behavior ... ie multiple accounts (which I'd bet better than 20% of those who have complained about bonus issues ... are guilty of breaking... maybe a lot more than that) and most importantly start bashing the casinos reputation all over amounts of money that are obviously expendable to the casinos but still they MUST protect themselves (via the rules created by them) or else they'd not be able to offer these bonuses at all - purely from a financial standpoint. (elsewise everybody'd be signing up and then cashing out and that is not the spirit in which the offers were made, but rather as a way of saying "hey, try my games because if you do I know you'll feel like playing them again... and I'm willing to give you the money to try them").

It is a sad commentary on society that we have become such as that you must have such rediculously long T&Cs to do almost anything anymore in order to protect yourself from those who would seek to profit from any kind possible means they can find even though they in their own hearts know that was not the spirit in which the offer was made...

[suzecat]

Originally Posted by caruso

Did you happen to miss the answer she gave DIRECTLY following your question back then?





Link to the post for anyone else suffering from Selective Memory Syndrome:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/95080-post70.html

Let's take a look at Suzecat's chat - manifestly designed to elicit responses about this player's "illegal" transfers which she spectacularly failed to elicit:

Question: "I just wanted to find out if I, as a US citizen with a US bank account, can purchase British pounds and use them to gamble."

Answer: "We[ll] the funds that would go into your NETeller account would be USD. If you find a merchant that will accept funds from a USD account and they are GBP than the conversion would be done for you at the time of the transfer."

So yes – you can. We all know that anyway. BFD.

Question: "OK, so if a casino requires that you purchase/play in the same currency as the country where you live, then it would not be possible to use Neteller unless you were untruthful about your country of residence?"

Where did that come from?? The casino does NO such thing, and nothing in the Neteller rep’s answer suggested any such thing. All he said was that the conversion would be done at the time of transfer. Exactly WHERE in his response did you deduce "so, if a casino requires that you purchase/play in the same currency as the country where you live…"?

Obvious answer: "No, it would be based on your currency, not your country of residence, as any NETeller customer can choose USD, CAD, GBP, and EUR as there base currency to their NETeller account."

Question: "Right, so I understand that Neteller would convert funds for you but they do not confirm an account holders' country of residence with a merchant?"

Why would they?? Since when was it down to Neteller to tell a Costa Rican casino that Caruso, playing in USD, is from England??

Obvious answer: "That is correct, we do not give any information to the merchants as far as you personal NETeller information goes."

Well duuuuuh, big surprise there.

Dramatic finale: "Michael, is it OK for me to copy this chat session and share it with people at Casinomeister forum?"

Yeah, I mean we learned a lot there, didn’t we? We learned that Neteller doesn't reveal to the casino details of their (Neteller) customers' accounts. Pretty important to get Neteller's express permission before posting THAT chat wasn't it? I mean, countries might fall now. Wars might start.

Why didn’t you just ask Michael if he eats corn flakes for breakfast? We’d have had a more meaningful insight. LMAO.

Just to back up what has already been said anyway: casinos WANT players playing in GBP – that's why the offer multiple currencies. GBP are bigger than USD, so represent a bigger win rate for the casino. Clearly, they also represent a bigger win rate for the bonus hunter – which is the downside from the casinos' perspective.

Oh, and now I come to think of it, tell me this Suzecat: since in your opinion "if a casino requires that you purchase/play in the same currency as the country where you live, then it would not be possible to use Neteller unless you were untruthful about your country of residence?"

…and since I personally use Neteller to play is US dollars as a UK citizen, Neteller is actually condoning my illegal account operation. Correct?

Think carefully before answering, because you might not be best advised to state that both myself and Neteller are basically frauds.



Yeah, run this one by us, Suzecat.

Sorry for the delay in responding to your questions, Caruso. It was best for me to catch my breathe before I endeavored to answer your pointed questions.

1. Selective Memory Syndrome. Hummm, it seems to be contagious.

2. Wasn't really trying to illicit anything from Neteller except for how they treat currency conversions. The rest of your Neteller comments make me believe you were in such a hurry to jump in my sh!t that you didn't really comprehend what you were reading.

3. Many people missed this one, so I will clarify where I was going. The untruthfulness of which I spoke was simply that in order to play in pounds (at a casino that requires you to play in the currency of your residence) you would have to be untruthful (when you signed up at the casino) about your location if you indeed lived in a country where pounds were not the base currency. As I have said, the T&C of the casino we are discussing states that you must play in the currency of your country of residence. Now Autumn12 said this was not a rule when she signed up (and thank you for pointing this out as I had missed it). Only the casino could say what the rules were at the time she signed up. I am skeptical about Autumn12's motives (I can think of 20,000 of them) so I can't feel very certain about what she posted.

4. Neteller a fraud - gee I hope not as I do business with them. I have no idea, nor do I care, if you are a fraud. I do think you have serious issues with patience and tolerance and should look for a line of work/recreation that does not require written or verbal contact with the public.

Hope this covered all your queries.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by bb1webs

though a bit off-subject I'd like to reply since I've given it so much thought. .... mostly due the fact that I find it interesting people are willing to go thru so much shit to get over on a casino for a hundred bucks ... or even $500 ...

I always wonder what people who don't systematically use bonuses find so confusing in the concept that if you keep making relatively small amounts of money (though often they're not so small) it all adds up to a lot of money. It's a bit similar to the people who keep depositing $100 to play slots and then suddenly notice a year later they're down $20000.

Despite the complaint threads there's usually no particular hassle to get involved with, and for what it's worth you'll find regular bonus hunters start very few threads here & when they do they're usually completely in the right (no-one else is so careful to comply with the T&Cs). The "flame and burn" threads are usually the result of disgruntled gamblers.

Originally Posted by bb1webs

It is a sad commentary on society that we have become such as that you must have such rediculously long T&Cs to do almost anything anymore in order to protect yourself from those who would seek to profit from any kind possible means they can find even though they in their own hearts know that was not the spirit in which the offer was made...

In our hearts we know bonuses are offered in the spirit of greed and cynicism. Casinos appeal to players' lowest instincts and know most people haven't the slightest chance of keeping a deposit if they take a bonus (not that you shouldn't take a bonus - you'll lose your money without one anyway, sooner or later). Forgive me for not having any qualms if it's possible to use the casino's trick against them.

suzecat, I wrote a point-by-point response to your "apology" before, which was actually still an attack on bonus hunters, but I decided not to post. Just keep in mind that perhaps more than 50% of the regular readers of this board are bonus hunters, so you shouldn't be suprised if your casual insults (which I don't think you or Pinababy or others are even particularly aware of) occasionally ruffle some feathers.

[soflat]

Originally Posted by bb1webs

mostly due the fact that I find it interesting people are willing to go thru so much shit to get over on a casino for a hundred bucks ... or even $500 ...

I'm living proof your time is much better spent pursuing a more ... profitable existence than what you could ever make chasing bonuses to try and get over on the casinos ..... and I don't care if you hit every casino twice around ...

anyway I suppose it has to do with the casinos being viewed as entities of evil background looking to do evil ... and using the enticement of free money as a means of doing so... and the bonus chasers view it as ... beating the devil ... so to speak.
The rest are just a bunch of cheapies looking to get free crumbs falling from the rest of society's plate. And its fun for either group to pursue such matters.

It is a sad commentary on society that we have become such as that you must have such rediculously long T&Cs to do almost anything anymore in order to protect yourself from those who would seek to profit from any kind possible means they can find even though they in their own hearts know that was not the spirit in which the offer was made...

Not sure if you realize how arrogant you come across here (you have found a way to make big profits and you think the rest of us are just waiting for crumbs? actually I think a lot of these people probably have fulfilling lives and make a good living)

In what spirit do casinos make bonus offers? Are we supposed to just play for fun and purposely lose because the casinos were nice enough to give us an extra $50 (crumbs to you) to play with?

Fun IS one motive for playing, but people have also been trying to 'beat the house' as a pastime for centuries.

Originally Posted by suzecat

I am skeptical about Autumn12's motives (I can think of 20,000 of them) so I can't feel very certain about what she posted.

I think Autumn was trying to win some money (Who isn't?) What are some of the other 19,999 possible motives?

[42ndSSD]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Until the industry devises a bonus system which benefits returning players rather than new players, this will unfortunately always be the case - but they have no one except themselves to blame - especially if they overstep their boundaries and eventually find themselves on the Rogue List.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I also think the online casinos are in an awkward position and there's no one easy answer. Many online casinos are going the "slots and keno only" route for bonuses, which I think shows wheir their true interests lie.

When visiting (say) Vegas, part of the reason to gamble is the "comps"--both direct and indirect. It's not too difficult to come out even or even slightly ahead when free room and board is taken into account, and many people enjoy the atmosphere, feeling of getting away on a vacation, etc... things that are hard to put a monetary value on. For many people a trip to Vegas is a win even if they lose their bankroll and/or aren't hardcore gambling addicts.

All the online casinos can offer is the opportunity to play the games and lose money. Some offer a comp system, but none of the ones I've looked at were worthwhile unless you were siphoning out a lot of money. Sensible, because the casinos aren't all that anxious to pay out more than they take in. (The comps offered by the B&M casinos are offset by revenue from non-comped players.)

The bonus system is also an inducement to get people hooked, and I'm sure it's fairly effective. I do wonder if the "bonus whore" is really as big a problem as the casinos make it out to be given how most people seemingly gamble with abandon.

In a way, their complaints strongly remind me of the similar complaints over piracy from the RIAA and the software manufacturers--blown way out of proportion as an excuse to charge people more money... or in the casinos' case, a way to ban players they believe are "abusing bonuses". These casinos need to "man up and show some balls" by allowing players to gamble however they want. If players choose not to throw money away, so be it.

Most of the T&Cs I've seen aren't that bad. The problem isn't so much their length, but that they're often deliberately vague, not posted prominently, and purposefully worded in ways which are difficult to understand. And some of the casinos are trying to take advantage of players, even a few of the "good guys". Frequently they make it a challenge to find which games a bonus is eligible for, and they hardly ever block players in their software from playing those games. Rarely do they make the bonus restrictions clear in the offer itself, instead burying them somewhere else.

But, there really are some decent casinos. I recently cashed out a little over $5k from a $100/$100 matching bonus; they paid with nary a whimper and made it clear they were happy to have me as a customer. But they aren't offering reload or monthly bonuses just begging to be abused, either.

[Linus]

Nice Post, Vesuvio.

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

I always wonder what people who don't systematically use bonuses find so confusing in the concept that if you keep making relatively small amounts of money (though often they're not so small) it all adds up to a lot of money. It's a bit similar to the people who keep depositing $100 to play slots and then suddenly notice a year later they're down $20000.

It's also similar to casino affiliates, who make their money by getting a small slice of the money gamblers lose at their casinos. As I'm sure any casino affiliate would tell you, those small "crumbs" add up!

Of course, under revenue-share agreements, affiliates only make money when their players lose.

Despite the complaint threads there's usually no particular hassle to get involved with, and for what it's worth you'll find regular bonus hunters start very few threads here & when they do they're usually completely in the right (no-one else is so careful to comply with the T&Cs). The "flame and burn" threads are usually the result of disgruntled gamblers.

I've noticed that too. Reading casino T&C's is not all that much fun, I guess.

In our hearts we know bonuses are offered in the spirit of greed and cynicism. Casinos appeal to players' lowest instincts and know most people haven't the slightest chance of keeping a deposit if they take a bonus (not that you shouldn't take a bonus - you'll lose your money without one anyway, sooner or later). Forgive me for not having any qualms if it's possible to use the casino's trick against them.

I have a hard time believing that most people who gamble, aren't trying to win. And of course, it's impossible to believe that any casino anywhere, isn't in business to make money.

suzecat, I wrote a point-by-point response to your "apology" before, which was actually still an attack on bonus hunters, but I decided not to post. Just keep in mind that perhaps more than 50% of the regular readers of this board are bonus hunters, so you shouldn't be suprised if your casual insults (which I don't think you or Pinababy or others are even particularly aware of) occasionally ruffle some feathers.

I don't see what difference it makes whether Autumn was 19, 21, or 121, online gambling would be just as illegal either way.

If it's up to the player to determine whether online gambling is legal in the jurisdiction where they live, every player in the US is violating the Terms and Conditions, because it's not legal here.

And yes - the casinos all know this. That's why they're all so careful not to have any physical or financial presence here. It's not that hard to keep track of. Ask Jay Cohen. He'll explain.

[bb1webs]

I apolgize for answering these since they are off-subject but I feel it necessary.

Not sure if you realize how arrogant you come across here (you have found a way to make big profits and you think the rest of us are just waiting for crumbs? actually I think a lot of these people probably have fulfilling lives and make a good living)

I apologize for sounding arrogant. I merely am stating a fact that if you are seeking to chase bonuses as a means of profit that there are much better ways to spend your time. And yes I have found a way to make a decent income and encouraging others to perhaps do likewise rather than spend their time chasing after "the big money by beating the casino bonuses..." is not what I consider arrogant but rather I'm trying to make those in it for that reason - to see that much of the hype ... and yes there is hype: many bonus chasers love to tell the story of the time they .... but in fact for most people its not something that is (at least what I consider) to be an endeavor where they will ever likely achieve the goal they are seeking and if they spent that time working towards other more lucrative goals that they will be much more likely to be rewarded by choosing that path over chasing bonuses.

Getting all ruffled at what I said doesn't change the facts. If you are bonus chaser then get over it and live with your choices. If you recall i stated I had no problem with the bonus chasers for whatever their reasons UNTIL such time comes that they overstep the bounds of honorable actions.

Only those who are truly bonus whores would take offense to anything I said because I speak the truth. If you're out to never spend any of your own money or only just enough of it to meet whatever requirements are necessary for you to do your thing .... then live with the image you created and don't take offense at me for stating the obvious.

Unless of course you can tell me where such a player does NOT come off looking like they are trying to grab the crumbs created by those to whom the bonuses are truly intended (because if the bonuses didn't bring in players whose losses helped off-set the cost of paying out on money won by bonus play: there'd be no bonuses offered period. Or at least certainly not like the things you're used to now anyway). So yes; those bonus chasers are doing exactly as I stated.

)

In what spirit do casinos make bonus offers? Are we supposed to just play for fun and purposely lose because the casinos were nice enough to give us an extra $50 (crumbs to you) to play with?)

$50 isn't crumbs to you? I'd like to know where you shop. In any case: as I thought I'd stated somewhere earlier: the bonuses are there saying: "i have some games that if you're a gambler; I know you'd like. Please try them via my dime: because I know once you try the games you'll want to play again. How hard is that to understand? And I believe the casinos make that point by the play-thru requirements they've implemented.

people have also been trying to 'beat the house' as a pastime for centuries.

exactly. Its called gambling. the expression "beating the house" comes from beating the house via risking your money to take their money, not risking their money to take their money. If you can't at least give me that then I give up and ask we agree to disagree.

Up until the time when the net arrived: there wasn't technology which would have allowed land-based casinos to ever offer such bonuses with play-thru requirements because they had no easy way to check the requirements were ever met: so its rather absurd to associate the current state of affairs with anything that history has to offer because there simply was never before an equal to the situations we see now.

yes people have always been trying to beat the house. But until the net came along beating the house had a very, very different definition.