Geisha Lounge detucted my $10k winnings

[mafaldina]

The casino manager called me on the phone and offered me, if I cancel my $2500 withdrawal request, they will give me 20% bonus. Wagering requirements 40 times on BJ. I played Caribbean 21 and won $10k. I chatted with the manager and he told me, they will deduct my winnings, because I played Caribbean 21, not BJ. Maybe I am not a gambling expert, but Caribbean 21 is a blackjack game for me. Even if this play did not fullfill the wagering requirements, why do they want to deduct my winnings? I can continue the playing on BJ. But the winnings are mine.
Any suggestion, what to do now? I thought it's a honest casino, because I saw the adv here and at Wizard of Odds.

[mafaldina]

Terms and Conditions


1. Only players who have registered a Real Account are eligible to receive Promotions.


2. In order to claim a promotion, qualifying Real Account holders must make their claim via our Cashier unless otherwise stated, ensuring that all the necessary fields are filled in correctly including the correct Coupon Code


3. Bonuses will be credited to the Player's Real Account as Casino Credits only, unless otherwise stated.


4. In claiming any bonus offer from the Casino, the player agrees to wager a minimum of twenty times the value of the purchase and the bonus before making a cash in. For example: If you wish to partake in a $200 free for $200 purchase, you must wager an amount of 20x $400. Play on restricted games Roulette, Craps,War and Baccarat is not permitted until the minimum wagering requirements have been met. Once this condition has been fulfilled play on all the restricted games Roulette, Craps War and Baccarat is permitted.

Wagers on Blackjack (all Blackjack games) and Tricard Poker only count as 1/2 .To qualify for a cash in on these games you will need to wager 40x the purchase and bonus. Additional wagering requirements may be imposed by the casino without prior notice in relation to any specific promotional offer.

4.2 In order to cash in the bonus, you need to cash in a total amount greater than the sum of the purchase and the bonus. This means that you will only be able to cash in the bonus (or part thereof) if you make a profit on the bonus. If your profit is less than the amount of the bonus, this amount will be credited back to your casino account for you to play with. If you lose more than the amount of the bonus no restrictions will be imposed on your cash-in, other than the wager requirements noted above. For example, if you purchase US$100 and receive a bonus of US$100, then a cash-in of US$190 will result in US$90 being returned to your casino account, and you will only be able to cash-in again once your balance exceeds US$100 (being the amount of the bonus received).


5. A promotion cannot be used in conjunction with any other promotional offer and only one (1) bonus offer can be claimed per person. Play across multiple accounts is combined, where applicable. The minimum cash in amount is $50 unless otherwise specified.


6. Bonuses may be refused at the discretion of the management if abuse of promotions is suspected. All cashins will be audited and refused where there is suspected fraud or at the casino management's discretion. Fraudulent bonus claims or cashins will result in the player being charged a processing fee (min. 12% of purchase amount), which will be deducted from their casino balance.


7. By accepting any prize and/or winnings from the Company, you consent to the use of your name for advertising and promotional purposes without additional compensation except where prohibited by law.


8. The Company reserves the right to amend these Terms and Conditions at any time without notice to you. Such amendments will be effective immediately upon being posted in this "Terms and Conditions" section of the Company's Web site. It is your responsibility to review the Terms and Conditions on a regular basis and to check any additional rules detailed within promotional emails. Should you be unclear about any point relating to a specific promotion, it is your responsibility to contact the support team and gain a full understanding before partaking in a promotion.


9. The Terms and Conditions contained herein represent the complete, final and exclusive agreement between you and the Company and supersede and merge all prior agreements, representations and understandings between you and the Company with regards to the claiming of any promotional or bonus offers.


10. Any promotion or offer is terminable at any time in accordance with the views of management without prior notice or obligation.


11. The management reserves the right to disqualify certain countries or individual players from promotional offers. Among the countries whose players are disqualified from promotions are those blacklisted in our General Terms and Conditions. Promotional offers via email, telephone or mail are extended only to the player whom the correspondence is addressed.


12. Please note that a separate Terms and Conditions exists for the general rules of playing in the Casino.



I cannot see anything, which states that if I play Caribbean 21 they will deduct my winnings.

[Macgyver]

Why not send the casino rep on here a note and see if he can't help?

It's really not that hard to find these guys on here ...

GrandAcesGeisha

[Wagerjunction]

mafaldina

I spoke to the Casino and it seem to have this very issue with you during its weekly promtions as well

You were advised by the Casino manager as you have been advised previously re the weekend promotions that the particular promotion is for play on the game Blackjack only not on variations of 21 games.

This was done over the phone unfortunately ,i did berate him for this.But nevertheless I am going to urge the Casinos to do the following :

1) have your winnings deducted ,
2) your reversal bonus deducted ,
3) your original winnings sent to you.

I am also recomending that your account be closed as i think you need to go out and experience the customer service and policies of other Casinos.

These particular partners are very good and always honour their commitments.I think your tactic of firstly not playing on the agreed game which is Blackjack and then trying to smear its name is not a very wise policy .

I do feel sorry for you as this is a bitter pill to swallow but you were told that this is for Blackjack only and i can tell you right now that this particular partner will not relent or change their minds regarding this.

It has also highlighted a particular issue for the partner ,the fact that they have to not only call but to also confirm via email .

If you have any particular questions regarding this you can either post here or you can PM me ,whichever option you choose is fine by me.

Best Regards
Greg

[mafaldina]

I copied here the Terms and conditions. It does not mention that I cannot play Caribbean 21 and if I play it you will deduct my winnings. So you do not have the right to deduct my winnings.
I played only Caribbean 21 in Geisha Lounge Casino for example on the Tuesday bonus and everything was OK, the casino paid me!
The casinomanager did not advice anything to me. However he called me on the phone and we spoke long. But he did not mention Caribbean 21 or any other game, which is restricted. And in the T&C there is nothing about Caribbean 21 and deducting winnings.
I did not smear any Blackjack name. In the T&C there is nothing about Caribbean 21 is a restricted game.
So why do you want to deduct my winnings? Who gave you the right? You want to rob my money?

[schankwart]

This is a classical situation.

It may be true or not that the player was told to NOT play any other game but Blackjack "itself", however, he did not break a single written term and should get paid his winnings in my opinion.

As per the terms posted on the Casino website mafaldina did not disobey a rule when he decided to play Carribean 21, as it is listed under all "Blackjack games" there.
Unless he was informed about the ineligibility of this game by email it would be very wrong to not pay him. Phonecalls are easy to be misunderstood and not a great "proof" unless the player explicitly confirmed that he understood the questionable term.

Geisha most probably meant to disallow the Caribbean 21 game for the bonus, but should have expressed this clearly in their promotional terms.

[vedat]

the guy accepts your offer for %20 bonus he doesnt plays roulette baccarate or craps plays bj and wageres 40x reverse cashout +bonus on a bj variant at terms bj variants is ok i really dont think that your manager told him that he can just play blackjack not the variants if you have the phone cenversation you can post it here (normally all casinos record their phone conversasions) by this behaviour you dont act from any other rouge casinos i think meister will solve this

[thelawnet]

You were advised by the Casino manager as you have been advised previously re the weekend promotions that the particular promotion is for play on the game Blackjack only not on variations of 21 games.

This was done over the phone unfortunately ,i did berate him for this.

This is classic. Maybe they did say that, maybe they didn't, nothing can be proven.

But the claim is that a decision was made on THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS and nobody could be bothered to send an email out confirming this.

Certainly it appears that the casino normally classes the Blackjack family games as Blackjack from their other posted t&cs, and any promotion that didn't would be a derogation from this.

So the casino deviates from its normal rules, accepts $2,500 of the player's money, gives $500 out and can't be bothered to send anything out saying what they'd done?

Shoddy, very shoddy.

What does this remind me of?

Oh yes, that's right, the reverse situation, where the player claims the casino told them that something was ok, but doesn't have a screenshot or chat log.

And what happens then?

The player gets jack shit, because they have no proof.

It's quite likely the player *was* told this, but frankly the bonus abuse argument doesn't really wash with me - no-one takes $2,500 + $500 and turns it into $10,000 without being a gambler. You simply can't do that at a casino expectation game like Caribbean 21, without putting your own funds at substantial risk.

But nevertheless I am going to urge the Casinos to do the following :

1) have your winnings deducted ,
2) your reversal bonus deducted ,
3) your original winnings sent to you.

I am also recomending that your account be closed as i think you need to go out and experience the customer service and policies of other Casinos.

Which policies would those be?

The ones where the casino sends the player *WRITTEN NOTICE* when they derogate from their normal playing conditions?

The ones where the casino *pays* the player who has turned $3,000 into $10,000 by gambling like crazy, and where the casino can provide *NO EVIDENCE* that they have done anything wrong.

The ones where if the casino offers say a $500 slots bonus (real example from Belle Rock Gaming), then if you play blackjack and win $10k, and cashout, they don't SEIZE THE WHOLE WINNINGS. In fact they won't even seize the bonus, they will simply tell the player to complete the wagering on slots, and when they have wagered the right amount they can cashout.

This is very very poor.

You're saying the player was told previously, but have no evidence of this either. The casino has a responsibility to safeguard itself, and if it doesn't, then it must take the consequences.


Of course in the very likely event that the player had lost his money, nothing would have happened. Had he played this promotion before? Played the same game? Lost his money and nothing was said?

These particular partners are very good and always honour their commitments.I think your tactic of firstly not playing on the agreed game which is Blackjack and then trying to smear its name is not a very wise policy .

You can complain about player smears all you like, but it's a situation the casino has placed itself in through multiple failures of policy and practice. This was avoidable.

Casinos open themselves up to these hassles by offering players bonuses. These bonuses encourage people, who understandably want to make money.

So you better dot every i and cross every t, because the result of this bonus situation is that it won't take long before a player like this comes a long, and it shouldn't be a surprise to you when they provide your casino with unneeded bad publicity, which could have been avoided with better practice.

It is no use to say 'the player should be more honest'. People aren't always honest. Casino players, managers - all want to win. There will always be situations like this occurring as a result of this.

There are only three ways to handle this:
1. don't offer players bonuses,
2. pay players when you screw up, or
3. make sure you cover your ass by putting everything in writing

Unless you do this, smears and bad publicity are waiting to happen. Avoidable for sure, but unless you do one of these three things, inevitable. To think otherwise is naive, and will lead to this happening again in the future.

This publicity isn't good - there's another complaint not far below this one - your software told the player that he had met the wagering requirements, and so he went to double up on roulette. When it turned out the software was wrong and he hadn't met them, he had his winnings confiscated.

Again, bad publicity, but avoidable, by making sure there's no loophole or shortcoming, or by paying up when things aren't clear cut.

I do feel sorry for you as this is a bitter pill to swallow but you were told that this is for Blackjack only and i can tell you right now that this particular partner will not relent or change their minds regarding this.

It has also highlighted a particular issue for the partner ,the fact that they have to not only call but to also confirm via email .

By partner you mean casino?

It seems like a poor cop out to me. The casino erred, by handing out $500 with no confirmation, and now having found out (apparently) what can happen, they wash their hands and say 'sorry, our mistake, we should send out emails, but you lose anyway'.

Assuming the casino's story is accurate the player sounds a bit sharp, but frankly I don't believe he can be that poor of a customer for you. All casino games are profitable, and a player who makes $10,000 from $3,000 is demonstrating behaviour that will long-term tend to casino profits.

Honestly, while these casinos are recommended here, I know for a fact that you just don't get these kind of hassles with Microgaming casinos.

[spearmaster]

The casino manager called me on the phone and offered me, if I cancel my $2500 withdrawal request, they will give me 20% bonus. Wagering requirements 40 times on BJ.

Did he say "blackjack" or "blackjack games"?

By the way, I do NOT support this type of promotion by any casino - this is setting poor ethical standards. Greg, can you possibly talk to the managers about NOT doing this in the future? That way you won't have to deal with issues like this where the terms are not clear.

[schankwart]

Did he say "blackjack" or "blackjack games"?

By the way, I do NOT support this type of promotion by any casino - this is setting poor ethical standards. Greg, can you possibly talk to the managers about NOT doing this in the future? That way you won't have to deal with issues like this where the terms are not clear.

Spear, I do not see anything wrong with the promotion itself as long as the player gets send the rules for it. Even some of the most reputable Casinos out there offer promotions upon reversing a withdrawal.
A screw-up like this could probably happen to any Online-Casino but only the wise and good ones will admit their mistake, pay up and learn of it.

Geisha should definetely not risk their reputation as it has been quite excellent so far.