Lake Palace 'do an Omni' - Ecogra says casino is right to do so

[Dirk Diggler]

Well I can't believe casinos are still trying to do this, but Lake Palace (Microgaming software, part of the Grand Bay/Bella Vegas group) has refused to give me a bonus AFTER I met the wagering requirement to receive it.

They advertised an unlimited 20% bonus that to receive you needed to wager your deposit once on slots, and they would add it the following Monday. So I deposited £6,000 and played this through on slots.

They didn't credit it on Monday, and after over a week of emailing them regularly they finally gave me an answer as to why not citing 'bonus abuse' and saying:

Please refer to point g of the terms and conditions on our website:

LAKE PALACE CASINO reserves the right to change the offer, adjust the bonus terms and conditions, or deny a proportion of the bonus.

I asked for clairification as to how they believed I had abused their promotions to which they replied:

I have been monitoring you account over the past few weeks and confirm
that we have every right not to credit your account with the 20% cash back bonus.

You have a distinct pattern in which you purchase and cashin your tokens. Let me
explain further.

As you are aware, the 20% cash back works on a weekly basis and is based on
all purchases less cashins made during that period ie Sunday to Saturday.
Please look at the file attached. Notice the distinct pattern of purchasing and
cashing in and let me know whether I am incorrect in stating that bonus abuse is
occuring....

to which I replied:

Hi Sally,

Of course bonus abuse is NOT happening. For bonus abuse to be happening I must be not complying with your terms and conditions.

If you claim it is then I can't be complying with them all - if that is the case please explain to me what I aren't complying with?

The bottom line with this is that you advertised a bonus to me which required me to wager first to receive it. I did this and then you refused to give it to me.

Now, you have every right to exclude whoever you wish from any promotion - however you should inform players prior to them taking part that they are excluded. If you advertise an offer as being open to all players and a player meets the terms to get the bonus then they should receive it if you haven't previously informed them they are excluded (which you obviously didn't with myself).

For the record I have never failed to comply with any of their terms and conditions.

After this I thought the best way forward was to complain to Ecogra - after all they are a 'independent' aren't they?

So I explained the situation to them and Tex Rees contacted me with:

I received a copy of your account from the casino and have done a review of your play. There is a definite pattern that emerges when a bonus is in question. Bearing this is mind, it is my opinion that the casino is within it’s rights not to credit your account with the bonus. Please note that all casinos have a clause in their Terms and Conditions (T&C’s) that informs players of their right to suspend or close any account at their discretion or to deny any player a bonus. eCOGRA do inspect these incidents during the casino review to ensure that there was a valid reason for the action taken.

To which I replied with this:

Tex,

I haver NEVER failed to comply with any of the terms and conditions of the casino.

The casino advertised a bonus to me that required me to do wagering to receive a bonus. I did this and then they refused to give it to me.

Now, they have every right to exclude whoever they wish from any promotion - however they should inform players prior to them taking part that they are excluded. If they advertise an offer as being open to all players and a player meets the terms to get the bonus then they should receive it if they haven't previously informed them they are excluded (which they obviously didn't with myself).

To which Tex replied with:

I am sorry to inform you that I am unable to proceed any further with your query. The casino exercised it’s right, as set out in their Terms and Conditions to exclude you from a promotion.

[Dirk Diggler]

The thing what really dissapoints me about the whole situation is Ecogra - they are happy for a casino to use the standard get out clause 'the management reserves the right etc' which is really disgusting TBH and claim that making deposits and cashins in a 'certain pattern' amounts to bonus abuse.

Surely at least they should be aware that for bonus abuse to be happening a player must be breaking the terms and conditions - making deposits and cashins in a certain time/pattern certainly does not equal bonus abuse.

[bethug]

If that all to it, then they wrong. They should have gave you your bonus then told you cant play no more. How i see it if you played slots anyway and made thru alive you should get your bonus

"I am sorry to inform you that I am unable to proceed any further with your query. The casino exercised it’s right, as set out in their Terms and Conditions to exclude you from a promotion. "

In that case a casino dont have to give you a bonus or change its mind mid stream. Wow Ecogra seems to side with that bull crap term, all bonus lovers are doom.

[spearmaster]

Without being made aware of the "pattern" that has been described, I wouldn't be able to make much comment. But Tex seems to be very thorough in her research from what I've experienced - so something would have had to stick out like a sore thumb for her to reject the complaint.

Can you further clarify this?

[cipher]

Without being made aware of the "pattern" that has been described, I wouldn't be able to make much comment. But Tex seems to be very thorough in her research from what I've experienced - so something would have had to stick out like a sore thumb for her to reject the complaint.

Can you further clarify this?

I agree Spear. But we really need to know out what this "sore thumb" is. Have a good one.

[caruso]

I won't be rehashing my opinion of Ecogra in the interests of keeping the peace. I'll just say "quelle surprise", LOL.

That is nonsense. If they either 1) emailed you the deal or 2) advertised it to allcomers on the web site WITHOUT any exclusion specifically directed at you, then you are entitled to the bonus. That the casino is entitled to invoke the standard "we reserve the right to screw you" clause is total poppycock. ALL casinos maintain this clause, but only the CROOK casinos INVOKE it in order to deny a player a cashin / bonus or whatever when the player has followed all the rules. You fullfilled your side of the bargain. The casino, after the fact, decides not to fullfill theirs. They are in no position not to pay you. You have done nothing wrong. If they untimately do NOT pay you, then Lake Palace are to the best of my knowledge the first Microgaming group after Golden Palace to fail to come through for the player, and this will be big news.

LOL, I hope Bryan can bypass "Ecogra" on this one.

[kavaman]

The casino states:
As you are aware, the 20% cash back works on a weekly basis and is based on all purchases less cashins made during that period ie Sunday to Saturday.

Its not a bonus, its a cashback bonus. So you will get 20% of your net losses back. Did you lose the 6000 or part of it?

-kavaman

[Dirk Diggler]

Spearmaster - I cannot be exact about what they believe it is about my deposits/cashins that exibit 'bonus abuse', but I believe it is simply that I deposit, receive bonus, wager, and then withdraw. The same as what thousands of players do at every casino every day.

Nothing more complicated or sinister - I'm happy to email the excel spreadsheet they sent me to anyone who would like to see it, in fact I'd like to so you can see if you can find anything 'abusive' about it? Just pm me your email address and I'll forward it on.

Kavaman - the bonus is not a traditional cash-back bonus, its TOTAL deposits less TOTAL cashins for the previous weeks play that the bonus is given on i.e if you don't make any cashins you get it on your full deposit.

[spearmaster]

the bonus is not a traditional cash-back bonus, its TOTAL deposits less TOTAL cashins for the previous weeks play that the bonus is given on i.e if you don't make any cashins you get it on your full deposit.

Ah, I think I got it.

During the week, you make multiple deposits totalling $6000. You wager exactly $6000 on slots, and stop playing.

The problem is, you may have won money - but NOT cashed it out, nor played further - but simply waited 3,4 maybe even 5 days until Monday, hoping that you would get 20% of $6000.

Can you confirm that this is indeed what you have done?

[Dirk Diggler]

That is pretty much correct - I have played there several weeks previously and received the bonus each time with no problem.

The problem is, you may have won money - but NOT cashed it out, nor played further - but simply waited 3,4 maybe even 5 days until Monday, hoping that you would get 20% of $6000

Can I just ask why you think this is a problem? I cannot see why it is at all, the terms are clearly there for all to see and I complied with them.

BTW Once you have received the bonus you then have to wager the bonus 15 times on slots before you can withdraw it. The way the bonus works has not been debated by myself or the casino.