Kiss Casino Ripped me OFF

**jyde** · 29th October 2004, 03:45 PM

What a joke that cj-character is

If they're so concerned about respecting the law they should ban players from a few countries and some states in the US. But then again - then they wouldn't be able to void winnings at their convenience. Suckers!

I wouldn't be surprised if there are Kiss-players who had their winnings denied because of their country.

**Stanford** · 29th October 2004, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by casinomeister

lacypuff - pick up the phone and call your DA's office and ask them if you are of "legal age of majority" to gamble online - see what they say. If you aren't, then I hope your deposit is given back to you ASAP. If you are, Kiss, you have a disgruntled customer to take care of.

And if this is the can of worms that Kiss Casino wants to open, then let them all hang out. I would expect that Kiss Casino, being so adamant in upholding the lawfulness of disallowing minors to play, would return the deposits of each player who is not of "legal age". I'm talking losers here.

Mr. Meister,

I agree that Kiss should return all the losses of all players under 21. But more than that, they should return all losses of all players in states where the attorney general takes the position that online gambling is illegal. In other words, almost all the states.

The District Attorney will probably take the position that online gambling is illegal.

But I think the position of that online gaming community is that state gambling statues don't apply because the wagers are not made in the state. The contract may be made in the state and its ratification by transfering funds offshore. But the actual wager is accepted elsewhere. It is like calling Las Vegas and asking if you can bet on the SuperBowl. Then flying there and placing a wager.

Red32 takes a different view. But they are consistent. They take no players from the U.S. Had this player applied there they would not have accepted the wager. William Hill similarly takes the view the wire act does not apply to the casino, but that it does apply to the sportsbook. A player from Indiana of any age won't face a non payment problem in their Sports Book because they won't take the wager.

Kiss has accepted this player is of legal age. And he is of legal age. He can contract. He did so. He upheld his end. They need to uphold their end. Hope you rogue them if they don't.

imho,
Stanford

**jerseyguy11** · 29th October 2004, 04:29 PM

I have been dealing with these exact issues for 5 years. Underage gambling, Illegal gambling, public policy etc..

Yes, the DA or most government agencys for that matter will say "online gambling is illegal but we dont prosecute for it". ALL states will say that. Only because they hope that by saying it's illegal you will not gamble online. Can you blame them with what is going in this KISS case.

Courts will have mixed views. Some will say the bet takes place from the states (as did the New York Supereme Court saying "Entering a bet from a computer in New York is adequate to constitute gambling in New york"). Other courts will say that its too merky to get involved with or the bets take place offshore.

The point here is that nobody knows just whos laws apply to online casinos.

These state and federal laws may or may not apply :
Underage laws, RICO laws, wire act and others.

If kiss wants to follow underage laws, then why not go all the way and follow Wire act laws? KISS is simply selecting which law they wish to "take out of context" while ignoring the laws that could actually apply.

The casinos are obviously taking the position that the bet takes place overseas and state laws dont apply. They also usually say in their terms "Its the responsibility of the player to abide by his own laws" or something like that. Even if the casinos are wrong and state laws do apply, they are overseas and escape US prosecution, so its a win/win for the casino.

In KISS's situation, they are doing this... If you win, your state laws apply. If you lose, your state laws dont apply. KISS is really defrauding players by doing this.

From my own experience in these issues, the state laws will not come into play. You cant sue KISS in state court being overseas, you must do so in federal court (or sue RTG is federal court).

Your best bet here is to have RTG or montana resolve this. They must police KISS in this situation.

**jetset** · 29th October 2004, 05:01 PM

Good post, Jersey...and the sooner RTG get involved in this the better as it is escalating fast and has potential for damage all round.

Recapping, this is what the player claims:

1) He truthfully declared his age at registration
2) He gambled and lost with no objection from Kiss casino management
3) He gambled again, this time winning a substantial amount of money, and tried to cash out.
4) Now it's an alleged "age of majority" problem for Kiss management.

**lacypuff** · 29th October 2004, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by jetset

Good post, Jersey...and the sooner RTG get involved in this the better as it is escalating fast and has potential for damage all round.

Recapping, this is what the player claims:

1) He truthfully declared his age at registration
2) He gambled and lost with no objection from Kiss casino management
3) He gambled again, this time winning a substantial amount of money, and tried to cash out.
4) Now it's an alleged "age of majority" problem for Kiss management.

Does anyone know of a contacts name at RTG? I have all ready filed a montana dispute claim. I haven't heard anything from them though.

Andrew

**bo_ho** · 30th October 2004, 02:58 AM

This has sort of become a "Pirate" like situation IMHO. Positions were solidified, threats made, and feelings hurt before an honest attempt at resolution. I really hope this works out.

That being said...and trying not to be too dramatic...it seems the future of online gaming is at stake here. If a casino can accept my money after I fully disclose everything about my age...location...shoe size etc, then decide to deny winnings using information they had at deposit, the system is broken. KISS could become the online casino poster child our media and legislators want to protect us against!

Good luck

**casd** · 30th October 2004, 11:56 AM

But still I have to wonder why chose to gamble at Kiss casino. I think you deserve your money but I can tell you even if you were 30 years old they would not pay you. They would find another excuse not to pay you. The are black listed everywhere including this site. If you like Real time gaming go to Phoenician or I net Bet and you will not have any problems. I hope you get paid but from their track record I doubt you will. They have stiffed many players. Best of luck to you.

**paul02085** · 30th October 2004, 02:37 PM

Exactly. If you were 90 they would say you are too old to be paid. Its just another in a long line of RTG ripoff sites.

**Slotster!** · 31st October 2004, 01:18 PM

Someone wisely said up there: "They agreed to it when they accepted the wager. That is the overriding consideration here"

That's the crux of the matter. By accepting the wager, they accept the potential payout. It's the casino's responsibility to verify age in advance, which they did, and allowed a 19yr old player to gamble.

Good luck Andrew - you deserve your winnings fair and square!