Slotland Fraudulent "Video Poker" Games

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by jamiester

...I don't know if anybody takes the Gambling Commission seriously ...

Unfortunately it's merely a portal that doesn't do too much. If it were a real "Gambling Commission" then they would have more of a pressence at some of the industry events that are held world wide. I've been hitting up just about every event that matters for the past five years, and I've never met these guys. I'm not saying that they haven't helped players in dire straights; I'm just saying they are not a commission that regualtes anything.

In the early days of online gambling, this website was marketed as a commission and a lot of casinos bought off on them being some regulatory entity. But they are not. It's just some guys running a portal.

Unfortunately Slotland (and a number of others) thought that the GC's logos looked cool and put them up. And they still are there.

As for the Video Poker at Slotland, it's a slot machine and this should be made clear in their t&c's. They are members of the forum so perhaps they can explain this as well.

[thelawnet]

Do these guys rig their games totally? Or is it just the jackpot?

The $5 Jacks or Better pays $4,000 for a $5 bet for a Royal Flush. This is a full pay 9/6 game, which has a casino edge of 0.46%. Does this count as a jackpot, which is rigged.

Or is the game fair if you are not playing the $10 needed to get the jackpot?

[paul02085]

The cards are not random like a VP machine. This is a slot machine so its set to payout a much lower % than a 9/6 JOB VP machine. Dont be fooled.

[dominique]

Slotland games are not rigged. People win the jackpot all the time.

The discussion here was about all the games being slots. There is a game that looks like video poker that operates like a slot, with the same probabilities as slots. There is also a game that looks like an odd version of BJ that is a slot.

All the games at Slotland are slots. The slots work just fine.

If you are playing at Slotland, you are playing slots. Period. And they pay out just fine.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by dominique

All the games at Slotland are slots.

That's the problem, though. Slotland refuse to state that the game's a slot and continue to mislead players into thinking it's video poker. They've also never attempted to explain how you can have random cards and a non-random frequency of royal flushes. Here are a few excerpts from an e-mail discussion I had with them recently (note Robert calls it both a slot and video poker):

This is Robert, the Supervisor of Slotland Customer Service. In our opinion, we provide our players with all sufficient informations about our games. There is no need to change the game descriptions again. Our JacksOrBetter game is a variety of video poker with a possibility to hit the progressive Jackpot. We do not hide, that the probability of the Jackpot is not natural. We are fair and honest company.

The cards are dealt randomly, but only the probability of hitting the Jackpot is not natural. Our JacksOrBetter game has payback of 98% as it is stated on the slot machine.

All the necessary information about our games are on our site already. To be honest, we have had really only few complaints about the possibility of hitting the Jackpot on our video poker game.

So they'll just continue cheating players into thinking they offer VP. In a better world they'd be shunned by all decent affiliates, but unfortunately they offer one of the best deals around (paying a large cut of the deposit rather than losses - wonder how they can afford that? ), so they're not going to disappear so easily.

[GrandMaster]

The cards are dealt randomly, but only the probability of hitting the Jackpot is not natural. Our JacksOrBetter game has payback of 98% as it is stated on the slot machine.

It is impossible only to change the probability of getting a royal flush. They are also forgetting that video poker also involves strategy, and without knowing the exact probabilities, the player cannot play optimal strategy. Until they give a full explanation, I will recommend that everybody avoid this game.

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by dominique

Slotland games are not rigged. People win the jackpot all the time.

The discussion here was about all the games being slots. There is a game that looks like video poker that operates like a slot, with the same probabilities as slots. There is also a game that looks like an odd version of BJ that is a slot.

All the games at Slotland are slots. The slots work just fine.

If you are playing at Slotland, you are playing slots. Period.

Well that's a very big statement, and it's certainly not stated on their site.

If it's true, they are deceiving a good number of players, as they certainly describe their games as Video Poker, not as slots.

At
http://www.slotland.com/jacksorbetter

it says

THE VIDEO POKER GAME.

That's right, video poker, not slots.

In not what place on that page is their the word slot.

If this is a pull tab or slot, they are not saying that.

On the page linked from there, it says

Please note that all Slotland games share the same mechanism which determines the jackpot win. Therefore, the probability of hitting the jackpot combination on JacksOrBetter is not natural but controlled by this shared random mechanism in the same way as slot machines' wins.

And on their FAQ they state

We offer six different slot machines and three stylish card games at the moment.

So they have six SLOTS, and three card games, which by implication are NOT slots.

In addition to our slot machines, we offer four great card games:

I assume you are an affiliate of these people, and perhaps have more information, but their site describes these games as Video Poker, not slots, with the only difference being that the jackpot payout does not pay according to true probability.

If there is more to it than that, then they are blatantly cheating and deceiving their players.

The Jacks or Better page above shows payouts as follows:

$0.50/$1 9/6, 250 coin RF
$3 9/6, 333 coin RF
$5 9/6 800 coin RF
$10 9/6 jackpot RF

For the 800 coin game, the return is around 99.54% with perfect strategy. This is a profitable game for a casino, as people don't play perfect strategy. With full pay JoB, the RF represents 1.98% of the overall return.

However, you are suggesting that there is more to it than they describe on the site, and the non-jackpot games are also slots. If this is the case they are ripping people are off.

This is important to know, as their $5 game is described as a fair game of video poker.

I am not interested in the silly blackjack game, as the eyecatching 2-1 for blackjacks is more than offset by the fact there is no splitting allowed, and if you double or hit you must do so to all three hands at once. This game already has a large house edge without any further rigging required.

But if the video poker is a slot, and the return of anything other than the Royal Flush on the $10 game does not represent a fair deck of cards, then they are cheating.

[caruso]

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

In a better world they'd be shunned by all decent affiliates, but unfortunately they offer one of the best deals around (paying a large cut of the deposit rather than losses - wonder how they can afford that? ), so they're not going to disappear so easily.

Exactly - I think I mentioned that somewhere. Slotland has such high affiliate exposure for just that reason - one quarter cut of all deposits. Ain't too many affiliates gonna drop them any time soon (and kudos to Bryan for taking the lead in that department).

Originally Posted by thelawnet

So they have six SLOTS, and three card games, which by implication are NOT slots.

This isn't new, it's been hashed out time and time again. If you're looking for change, you're wasting your time. There is absolutely no reason for Slotland to change anything - they and their affy partners are creaming it. All that can be done is remind those few who read the boards about the truth of the scam, and keep this thread alive and visible.

[nafanny29]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

It is impossible only to change the probability of getting a royal flush. They are also forgetting that video poker also involves strategy, and without knowing the exact probabilities, the player cannot play optimal strategy. Until they give a full explanation, I will recommend that everybody avoid this game.

I supose if was truely "random" apart from the royal flush hit, they could deal a 2nd random card if the royal card was selected by the RNG. But as you correctly say this would affect strategy in loads of situations.

Id bet a dollar it is totally un-random in the first place anyway

[dominique]

Geez guys, how many times do we ascertain this?

Slotland offers slots only.

All their games are based on the same mechanism - a slot mechanism.

All their games also share one jackpot, which pays out very frequently.

Slotland is for slots only. You can play all kinds of odd slots with interesting features, including an odd BJ like slot and a videopoker like slot.

Slotland is one of the very few gaming sites that operate on HTML, which is the only type software many browsers can use. It looks slow and heavy handed to most of us, it is a life saver to many others.

But Slotland is for slots, period.