Slotland Fraudulent "Video Poker" Games

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by dominique

Geez guys, how many times do we ascertain this?

As many times as it takes for them to post the truth on their website.

Originally Posted by dominique

Slotland offers slots only.

All their games are based on the same mechanism - a slot mechanism.

That's not what they say on their website. They say they have slots PLUS card games.

They do not say that their card games are based on a slot mechanism. They do say that the jackpot is based on a slot mechanism, and I can accept this as a valid business decision, as you can't offer $100k jackpots without this.

But this is very different from the whole game being based on a slot mechanism (i.e. not reflecting the actual odds of a given card being dealt). In particular, the $5 game appears to offer 99.54% payout. If this is not the case they are wilfully deceiving their players.

Slotland is for slots only. You can play all kinds of odd slots with interesting features, including an odd BJ like slot and a videopoker like slot.

Slotland is one of the very few gaming sites that operate on HTML, which is the only type software many browsers can use. It looks slow and heavy handed to most of us, it is a life saver to many others.

But Slotland is for slots, period.

Ok.

So why do they repeatedly talk about slots AND video poker, rather than talking about a jacks or better SLOT?

There are two possible scenarios here:

one, they do indeed offer fair video poker games, except when you play the $10 games, when the royal flush payout does not truly reflect the odds. This would be acceptable and accords with what they describe on their site.

or

two, as you say, their video poker games are in fact slots, and all hands do not pay according to true probability. If this is the case they are wilfully deceiving players, as they simply do not state this on their website, as you suggest that games are based on a 'slot mechanism', and I can't see how in good conscience you can endorse them.

[dominique]

You may try your luck at the Jacks Or Better, the game based on the most classic video poker ever. Our pay table for this game is very generous - you do not need to place a maximum bet to get a bonus pay out on the Royal Flush although a maximum bet with a Royal Flush WILL win the jackpot!

(Jacks or Better: Minimum bet = $0.50; maximum bet = $10.00)


Striking Sevens machine is similar to popular Deuces Wild video poker. In this game Sevens are WILD and replace any other card to allow you to make the best possible poker hand. All winning hands are offered the chance to DOUBLE the win. If you play your hand right, you can strike it rich with this great game!

(Striking7s: Minimum bet = $0.50; maximum bet = $10.00)


For a little more excitement and to triple your chance for the BIG win, enjoy exciting triple play action at the WildHeart based on Double Joker video poker machine. It may seem like a jungle out there, but you can be King of the Jungle with one good deal!

(Wild Heart: Minimum bet = $0.25; maximum bet = $15.00)


Sophisticated gamblers will love the SpaceJack which is a video variation of the most popular table game of all times, Blackjack. Blackjack pays 3 to 1 to the player, even when the dealer has blackjack! Three blackjacks with bets placed on all 3 wins the progressive jackpot!

(Space Jack: Minimum bet = $1.00; maximum bet = $60.00)

The slots are based on these games and certain combinations pay the progressive jackpot.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by dominique

The slots are based on these games and certain combinations pay the progressive jackpot.

There you go again - you use the word "slots", but they don't (one game of video poker can be based on another, after all). You missed out the line above the descriptions:

In addition to our slot machines, we offer four great card games

You say their games work like slots, but they're only willing to admit that "with card games, the probability of hitting the jackpot combination is not natural", implying that apart from the jackpot the games play naturally, logically impossible as that is.

It's a nice affiliate program, but you can't possibly support them in good faith while they're deliberately misleading their players. Though to give you some credit, I notice that on your site you've actually changed their text - do you have approval for the final line added on to the descriptions, or is it your interpretation? e.g.

You may try your luck at the Jacks Or Better, the game based on the most classic video poker ever. Our pay table for this game is very generous - you do not need to place a maximum bet to get a bonus pay out on the Royal Flush although a maximum bet with a Royal Flush WILL win the jackpot! The mechanism behind Slotland card games is the same as slots.

Perhaps if that found its way back to their site it'd be approaching acceptability, though it'd seem easier to abandon the term "card games" if the "card games" are "slots".

[jamiester]

I was told by Robert that about 5% of the 98% return is dedicated to the progressive jackpot. So, for people who don't hit the jackpot, they can expect about a 93% return on all the games (He actually said players average 92 -94%).
I should also note that Slotland will include the bonuses they give you (signup, 10% after each $1000) as part of your WINNINGS from slot play. The only reason they would do such a thing is to try to trick players into thinking that they are experiencing a greater return than they actually are. Robert denies it, but I feel they include these bonuses as part of their advertised 98% payout. (Which they say is certified, but I have yet to find someone who will claim to have certified it).

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by jamiester

I was told by Robert that about 5% of the 98% return is dedicated to the progressive jackpot. So, for people who don't hit the jackpot, they can expect about a 93% return on all the games (He actually said players average 92 -94%).
I should also note that Slotland will include the bonuses they give you (signup, 10% after each $1000) as part of your WINNINGS from slot play. The only reason they would do such a thing is to try to trick players into thinking that they are experiencing a greater return than they actually are. Robert denies it, but I feel they include these bonuses as part of their advertised 98% payout. (Which they say is certified, but I have yet to find someone who will claim to have certified it).

If this is true then they are blatantly cheating and deciving their players.

The Video Poker games should return around 98% EXCLUDING the royal flush, and more than this when you count the royal flush.

If the game is indeed rigged in other ways, they are still deliberately setting out to deceive.

There is nothing wrong with offering slots - Microgaming do it, Cryptologic do it, etc. - but passing off a slot as a video poker game, albeit one where the Royal Flush does not pay naturally, when it is in fact not video poker at all is cheating.

If they were no trying to cheat and mislead people who would not otherwise play their, why would they not simply say 'Our Jacks or Better SLOT'. It's really simple to do, and no-one would complain....

Basically if you run a slots-only casino, it is impossible to be accused of cheating, as you can make your slots pay however you like.

If they are not playing fair video poker, they are no different from the other cheating rigged casinos & software providers and should be treated as rogues accordingly.

[trade]

I have a particular hard spot in my heart for slotland. I had some huge issues with them in the past and cancelled my account last year. There were at least 2 or 3 times when I e-mailed them with complaints of how I had been misled (particularily about Jacks or better randomness as a POKER CARD game, as opposed to a SLOT game) or the results of my play- to which I received the responses already mentioned in this thread re. fairness. I can only surmise in an effort to keep me as a player, I received a bonus a couple of times where once I began playing, I just couldn't lose ("hush money"??)... until a certain point where everything went south. I cashed out once I realized (sometimes after several days of great winning play like I never had experienced) I was on the lose cycle. When I pointed this out to them, i.e. how odd that I should have won on such bonuses, I was basically accused of not being capable of graciousness or might just be paranoid. I do believe slotland can manipulate their "randomness", even on an individual basis. I would love to see a full audit of their operation. Having customer service reps who are really really nice isn't a good reason to keep depositing but God bless you if you do.

[clawback]

The sites been down now for 3 days apparently with server problems.

Anyone have more info regarding slotties problems.