Crystal Palace Probation?
 

As most of you know, I have had my dealings with Warren Cloud in the past, (the operator of Crystal Palace, etc.), and these "dealings" have been mostly abrasive communications concerning player disputes and what-not. But over the past several months - we have been a bit more cordial, speaking directly over the phone, and WC has been taking care of any complaint that I have forwarded to him expediently and fairly.

One thing to note: many of the complaints that have been lodged against the WC casinos in the past have been fraudulent. Recently (last week) I had "two" different players lodge a complaint against CP (the player is a member of this forum BTW), and it was traced to one account - one person - and this is bullshit - but this is beside the point.

The point is is that Warren has requested to have his casinos removed from the rogue section and placed on probation. He feels that he has turned over a new leaf, and he feels that he has earned recognition for paying his players. Probation means that if the casino keeps its act together for six months - they are removed from the rogue section. If they ef up - they are thrown back in.

Well, why am I considering this? Mainly in the attempt to be fair - this is my main concern. If an operator requests that I should review his situation - then I will. Most of the time I will make the decision on my own - but this situation is different since so many people have been involved or affected.

Operator's reasons for probation:
All legitimate winnings are being paid. The casino has the right to deny bonuses to "advantage" players. But if a player is deemed a bonus abuser they are paid their winnings + deposits and allowed back in without a bonus.

Fraudulent players are given their deposits back but forfeit their winnings.

The operator has claimed to have turned over a new leaf.

My reason for consideration:
There have been hardly any complaints for the past several months - publicly or privately through the Pitch a Bitch. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, and in my honest opinion - when casinos have been making efforts in keeping their shit together - I need to look at this at this objectively.

But like I implied before, this is a complex matter that I think should be addressed by anyone who feels affected.

What I want from members of the Casinomeister's forum:
I want your input. Some of you are players at WC casinos, and have no problem with them. On the other hand, some of you have had your share of difficulties with these casinos. Now is the time to be heard. What I don't want are stupid rants and emotional outbursts. What I do want are facts and thoughtful opinions.

If anyone here has a complaint (new or old) on the following casinos, I have set up a special "Pitch a Bitch" section to address these. If you had an old issue that you felt was handled unfairly, please feel free to fill out the form as well.

Claims for the following casinos will be considered and reviewed:
http://www.casinomeister.com/problems_cpalace.html
Crystal Palace
High Rollers Lounge
My Online Casino
Vegas Riches
Casino Zeal
Bigbonus-casino.biz
Freemoney-casino.biz
Gaming-money.biz
July-casino.biz
Lets-play-today.biz
My-casino-offer.biz
Partyime-casino.biz
Raining-money.biz
Summertime-casino.biz
Uno-casino.biz
Unreal-casino.biz

Since July 2003
Cleopatras Casino
Americas Online Casino
ClubMardiGras
Club Regal

Since July 2004
Lucky Coin
Luck Coin
Lucky Pyramid
Golden Nile
American Grand
Royal Circus
American Circus
Past associations:
Rated Player Casino

I will be absent from my place of duty from late tomorrow until the 5th of September. I will review everything submitted and make a decision on what course to take after then.

A final note: being on probation is a far cry from endorsement, please don't get this confused. I just want to keep things as objective and fair as possible at Casinomeister.

It's heartening to see rogues evidently affected by public opinion. This is at odds with the claim that "bad press is good for business" - Grand Banks and Virtual - and apparently also at odds with Cloud's own previous opinion, based on those memorable remarks from that earlier exchange.

Absolutely no redemption. This fellow set out his stall at Rated Player (LOL, before my time), continued the same line at Extreme (THE most notorious RTG back in the day, before Virtual v.1 / Prism came along), apparently eventually got kicked out and moved on to CP where he was locking accounts and causing general player stress from day one - I can personally testify to that. It sends out TOTALLY the wrong message to the rest of the RTG rogue stable if people like this, with this kind of a history, are allowed off the hook. There are plenty of good RTGs currently, and absolutely NO reason for players to be encouraged to patronize operations like this.

Sorry, Warren / Richard / Oliver / Donald - no.

If they paid all players. It cool with me. Just let him know if he goes back bam he back up. People and companies do change.

Casinomeister;
I have bypassed some juicy email bonus offers from American Grand in the past several months with all the warnings from this site. With the new ownership and the apparant detente with WC, are we able to peruse these offers with some degree of confidence or is this thread for Crystal Palace only?

I abstained. If they keep paying all their players thats a good thing. The power a casino has to label a player an "advantage player" is very troubling. But if this only affects the ability for a player to get a bonus AND HAS NO EFFECT ON PAYING OUT WINNINGS OR DEPOSITS, then maybe they can be redeemed, slowly.

Wow, this is a tough one Bryan. I think I would vote for a totally different option:

I'd like for Warren to come here and explain his rogue behavior and the reasons for it to all of us before we even consider letting him off the hook. Once you put them on probation, he just has to behave for 6 months and he's un-rogued (dis-rogued?). I think that's too easy for one with such a reputation for bad behavior. Lets have him here explaining why he behaved so badly and answer questions from the players (reasonable questions, not personal attacks). Then we can decide if he has EARNED probation.

I would like to see Warren explain this as well. And pay all the players due money from his casinos, myself included from getting stiffed at Golden Nile. (yes, I pitched a bitch) :cool:

From the newsletter: "But if a player is deemed a bonus abuser they are paid their winnings + deposits and allowed back in without a bonus."

I have an account at HRL. I played there ONCE, when it opened, and lost. It was locked immediately.

I have another at Crystal Palace. Ditto above, but here I won (balancing the above loss). I was paid, and locked immediately.

I have an account at Cleopatra's. I've NEVER used it. It was in good standing. It's now locked. I Emailed Cloud / Curran / Brooks / Fortune about this. Never got a reply.

I am spammed weekly or twice weekly with promo Emails for ALL the above casinos.

Also in the NL: "He operates over 25 casinos and some of these are RTG's most successful operations."

What an awful state of affairs, that the worst operator in terms of player abuse is also the most successful. What kind of a message does this send out to crook licensees, both current and future?