MicroGaming System's Software Suspicious Random Generation????

[Inetwiz]

Suspicious "Random" Numbers' Generation

It appears the Microgaming gambling software is calculating table payouts before actual virtual spinning of the "Randomly" generated numbers appearing on the roulette wheel. Before writing this statement, I experienced first hand the following events, with about $1700 in real credit card losses.

I play Roulette frequently at several different internet online casino sites. Recently, I was participating in play with Orbital Casinos (licensed to conduct business in Curaao) downloaded computer software. I covered the entire table except one number, that number appeared as the so called random number. I thought that was overly suspicious. I then covered that number and uncovered another number. That uncovered number appeared.

Next, I divided the table in half 1-18 and 19-36. I covered the 1-18 numbers. So called "Random" numbers appeared in 19-36 for all the plays I had the 1-18 numbers covered. I then asked myself what would happen if I would then cover 19-36 numbers. The opposite end of the table (1-18 numbers) consistently appeared on the wheel.

Finally, I then covered quadrants (first 12, second 12, and third 12). If any two of the numbered quadrants were covered with bets, the third quadrant "Random" numbers would appear as long as the the quadrant wasn't covered with any bet. The roulette numbers were random in that essentially quadrant devoid of bets coverage.

Test the above scenarios. I'm sure you will arrive at the same conclusion. Microgaming Systems, an offshore gambling software company, has a serious program coding (cheating??) issue in their software or someone @ the casino site has tampered with the integrity of the softwares ability to truly generate "Random" numbers on the internet roulette wheel. PricewaterhouseCoopers, Inc., located in South Africa, verifies all site games payout ratios to be in some range of 90% or higher. It just so happens that PricewaterhouseCoopers, Inc. is engaged by Microgamimg Systems as their independent accountants for this purpose. Also take note, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Inc. does not ensure the integrity of the Microgaming software games only the payout ratios. ?????Fox Guarding the Hen House?????

This puts to question other games at other site utilizing this Microgamimg gambling software and may translate to internet extreme player cash losses, a definite casino player non-benefit or another SCAM. I should point out all players in the online casino gaming presentation are offshore(Outside the U.S. jurisdictional arena). No recourse or protection for wronged online casino players.

Microgaming Systems in United Kingdom
PricewaterhouseCoopers, Inc. in Johannesburg, South Africa
Orbital Casino is licensed to conduct business in Curaao

Sincerely,
inetwiz

 

[Anonymous]

From what I understand is that there are numerous
variables here.

First, a random number generator on a computer requires a
"seed" to activate it. The most common seed is the time of
day which could be broken down into the number of
milliseconds since midnight. If you are playing an online
casino at the same time of day, it could be that you are
getting results for that time of day - if so, try various
times of the day and see if the results change.

What you might be seeing is that some electronic games are
programed for a guaranteed payout such as 92% which is what
the VLT's do here. In this case, the result of the game is
predetermined prior to your next play. In this case, the
results that you see *cannot* possibly be completely
random. When the machine becomes "loaded", it dumps.
Unfortunately, this event in itself appears random so it is
difficult to determine just when it is going to happen. So
check the casinos you are monitoring to see if they
advertise this "guaranteed payout" which implies a
non-random payout.

 

[Alleyoops24]

Inetwiz,

You are obviously much more technically oriented than I, but I agree that something stinks in this random generator system. At the very least, there's more to it than they're letting us know. I'll tell you my experience without comment on the technical side.

For last month+, I've played at ALLSLOTS, a random generator online casino. And lost my butt. A couple of times I'd hit a little, but I'd think--based on my cumulative losses--more had to be coming and keep playing. Bigger payoffs just didn't happen. Every time I tried, it would play down to nothing.

Well, anyway, I decided to write about my experience on ALLSLOTS. I've done some random writing for a few magazines--and since I've got compulsive gambler tendencies and online anything is hot these days--I thought my personal experience might get some print.

So I wrote to ALLSLOTS asking for more info about their payouts, free play vs. real play, etc., and they quickly provided answers. At the same time, I let them know I was asking the question(s) because I did some writing and intended to write about my experiences for magazine submission.

Immediately following that, I hit approximately $1500 on the Lucky Charmer game, and, again, kept playing. This time my experience was different. My play for two days stayed between $1500.00 and $3000.00. It basically wouldn't go beyond $3000.00 but wouldn't go below $1500.00. I bet it happened 15 times or more. And, to be honest, it got boring. It didn't change until I cashed in some of the winnings. Then it reverted back to the same old way it had been.

I believe a "lock" on my play had been put in place someway/somehow to guarantee I'd cash something. It was as though they didn't want me writing about all losses and no wins. You see, up to this point, I'd cashed nothing. It's since reverted back to its original "no second chance" form.

I just don't believe it's coincidence. I think they control who wins/who loses in some manner. Would be interested in your thoughts.

 

[Anonymous]

Attn: Alleyoops24
Hmmm, an old term "player profiling" comes to mind....I believe that most online casinos have the software to "profile" the player, and learn what you will do......give it a thought!

 

[spearmaster]

Inetwiz-

Over how many trials did you do this test? 4? 5? 20?

Post some facts then let's analyze them.

Alleyoop -

Trust me on this one. I run a website, and I write for sites all over the Net.

I lost my ASS at AllSlots. And I happen to know the people there.

You were just lucky/unlucky.

 

[subic]

Inetwiz -

I was lucky and had an oversize win at Allslots.
Did you know it is a five deck game? Or does that matter to your play?

Spearmaster -

As for profiling, I was scrutinizing an online casino software company's website and tucked away in a description of features for there sportsbook module it said the lines were switchable according to the profile of the player then it listed three player types. The website is interactive-gaming.com they provide sw for Gameday, sunnysportsbook, fairdeal casino, fivecardcharlie, wssbcasino, vip-casino.

 

[spearmaster]

Interesting, Subic. I suspect those are steam, scalpers and squares

When it comes to a sportsbook, it's almost understood that different players get different lines. Now I don't happen to agree with that logic, but then I am not an expert on sports betting either. I do, however, know the CEO of IGW and I will ask him a bit more about this next time I see him in June.

Profiling had better not exist as far as casinos go, however.

 

[portia]

Spearmaster :

under admin at IGW site it says "adjustable lines for Street / Wise Guy / Square Customers "

What does it mean?

(Subic = Portia)

 

[spearmaster]

lol

squares are ordinary people. Not being a sports bettor, though, I don't think I am qualified to explain the other two types, other than to say they are generally the type the books keep an eagle eye on.

 

[mudbone]

I too have noticed some all too coincidental patterns with MicroGaming. I've noticed that if you are a player who raises your bet on a loss and
lowers it on a win, they will sucker you into an escalating pattern then cut you off at the knees!
I've watched it happen time and time again. The only way to stop it is to pull the plug and limit
your losses. I've also noticed that their "random"
generator hits patterns where it will not only hit the same color, but the exact same number four or five times in a row. You can still win against MicroGaming, but you have to be alert to
their "tells".

 

[Joanne]

This is very interesting reading, & to say that I don't think it happens would be a lie, on my behalf.
Lets all be honest to ourselves here, all forms of gambling have over the years been tampered with. Now that we are into the electronic age, & with the calculating power of computers, does it not surprise you that dodgy operators could manipulate the numbers or falls in their Online Casino.

As Inetwiz stated he was sure the casino once contacted made his account pay!

I have a personal story like this also. I deposited $20 into Colosseum >,---forgive my spelling ---| I playing 7 Oceans @ max bets @25cents per line... Got down to $11.75 & whamo I got 3 blue 7... @ this point I had won $250... Feeling lucky I increased the bet to $1 per line max lines and a few more spins got it again... this time paid $1000... Anyway I played like for the next 5hours @ the end I had accumulated over $5400US ....
I tried the next day and increased this to a grand total of $8500US...
Thinking I was on a massive roll I just kept going...needless to say I ended up loosing $5000US in a matter of 3 hours...
I did however cash out & yes I got paid...but it just seemed no matter what I did those 2 days, I simply could not loose!

I have yet to see anything that come a fraction of close to those 2 days, no over 14mths ago.

Anyway just thought I'd pass this along, I hope you all have a great day

 

[dave_r]

I urge everyone to boycott all Microgaming casinos. The Tropika group of Microgaming casinos has defaulted on payments from players who withdrew funds in December. Microgaming is well aware of the situation, yet refuses to:

1) Issue any kind of press release.
2) Help pay players a percentage of thier profits.
3) Shut down Tropika casinos.

These casinos are still up and running accepting bets. SHAME ON MICROGAMING. Shame, shame, we know your name. Stay away from all.

As far as suspicios number generation goes,
you all know how I feel about this issue. I have collected my data from thousands of plays of blackjack and already put them into a spreadsheet. The results are still being anylized. Once I come to some kind of conclusion, I mayu decide to post the results here, and on a website for all to view. Please keep in mind, a friend of mine has already done this, and received an email from Microgaming's attorney with the threat of a lawsuit. Unbeleievable.

 

[anon]

This is interesting reading, for sure. I am CONVINCED that Microgaming software is biased - pre-programmed for you to lose. Play one dozen, incresing your bet when you lose, and you'll just see how, 20 times in a row, 5 or 6 times running, your dozen will just keep LOSING.

Switch dozens, the same thing will happen.

I'm surprised the online casinos still have customers - doesn't everyone know they're cheating ?

Can anyone suggest another software type that does NOT have this inherent dishonesty?

 

[dave_r]

IF any regular member here has played Microgaming blackjack with an average bet of $200 per hand, and has come out ahead of the game after several hours of play, please let me know. After approx 4 years gaming online, I've never heard of any REAL person who played with proper basic strategy at that level and won. This makes me extremely suspicious. In fact, I know of one person who recently contacted me via email who claims to have lost $15,000 in less than an hour playing $200 a hand at thier bj. The dealer just got 21 and blackjack, repeatedly.

Now compare that to Bossmedia. I know of several players who have bet at the $200 level playing blackjack, and have come out way ahead, after continuous playing all day/night. Also, I have personally made the top bet of $500 on the single player version after haveing won $5000 from a $400 deposit. I then continued to win and cashed out with $10,000. Since then, I had a major losing streak with Bossmedia for several months. I cut down my bets to the min, and cut my losses. In fact, one time recently, playing with rather small bets at a Bossmedia casino, I lost 36 out of 38 bets. At that point, I was under the impression that someone flicked a switch an turned on the cheat mode. I asked someone from Bossmedia to release an audit for me, and this was eventually completed. I examined it, and despite this one shocking bad run, everything else did seem completely fair. Since that instance, I managed to win $2000 from a $50 bonus, and then took $600 of it and won another $5000 for a total of $7000. I made about another 15 $500 bets in the process. I won 9 of the 15. So, my conclusion is that after literally hundreds of hours I've spent playing at Bossmedia casinos, I've done better with them than at a land based establishment. I would highly recommend Bossmedia.

Also, I highly recommend Global-Player, Stanley Acropolis, and Lasseters (despit the slow gameplay).

As for Cryptologic, I will not make a recommendation for or against them. But based on hours watching thier multiplayer mode, not many players walked away winners.

 

[babe]

OK, I'm letting you know that I have had some nice wins playing $200 per hand at Microgaming Casinos. I'm not going to give specific numbers but about 2 weeks ago I have a very sizable win while playing 298 hands. I just finished at a casino where yesterday a lost $3000 real fast and between yesterday and today, got it all back and pulled out a $1000 win. I did very well during December at the Tropika group. Not getting paid my winnings has no bearing on this discussion.

 

[spearmaster]

Babe -

Go stick it to Wilhelm in the other forum too, please?

 

[mary]

I do ok on the Microgaming BJ.

And I think there is too much penile thinking going on in "the other forum". Yo, Spearmaster, there's a sizable percentage of humans who *enjoy* intromission. Who positively revel in a sound pounding. They're called "women".

Think you could stop thinking the worst insult you could make to a man is to equate him with a woman? Kind of pisses us girls off. Where would all you straight boyz be without us?

Go listen to the end of my interview on Casino Gazette....

Love, Mary, proud user of tampons

 

[spearmaster]

LMAO.

I never said he was a woman, or even implied it, other than to say that he needed to be spanked.

Strangely enough, I suspect there are men who like to be spanked by women... or other men...

so keep those thoughts to yourself LOL.

Love, Spearmaster, proud buyer of tampons for his wife

 

[dave_r]

Thank you for your input Babe and Mary.

Spearmaster,

The only way anyone will ever have enough proof that Microgaming is running a dishonest game is if thier offices are raided. While this is a very unlikely scenario, don't dismiss this completely. Look what happened to Starnet. Perhaps if someone gathers evidence of money laundering or other corruption, this will become a reality.

It is my personal opinion that crooked people
cannot cover up thier actions forever. These people have no morals and ethics and it is only a matter of time that someone shows thier true colors. Also remember, birds of a feather flock together.

I remember a long time ago when I posted a message regarding Handa-Lopez on the RGT Online message boards. Sue Schneider responded, and basically told me she knew these people, and was reasonably sure they were running an honest operation.
HAHAHA Yeah right. Enough said.

 

[spearmaster]

I agree that crooked people cannot cover up their actions forver. And I agree birds of a feather flock together.

Now, since I have personally met two Microgaming owner/operators, if what you say is true then I highly doubt the game is dishonest.

Let me tell you what, though - if there is even a sniff of something wrong I will be right on top of it, I promise. As I said, I'm not saying Microgaming is or isn't doing whatever is being alleged. I'm saying that people should not be making claims they cannot back up with facts.

Jim Redmans, btw, is not one that I will ever recommend, along with Tropika.

 

[sirius]

What's up with Jim Redman Casino??? It says when you log in that it can't process any transactions due to 'technical difficulties'. It seems like it's been like that for a couple of months. So if anyone has any money in there what are they supposed to be waiting for?

I was waiting for a couple of cheques from March cashins which I got eventually. They did have a 20% promo, wager 3x(d+b), for a whole week and those cashins were delayed for a long time.

 

[DP]

I am associated with two MGS (Microgaming) casino's and still cannot believe the opinions of those that like to bag MGS games, in particular, BJ.

Someone on another forum said something about MGS BJ only returning 93%!! I couldn't believe I even read that and wonder who could be convinced by such an argument. I also am curious as to why anyone would bother to keep such records, surely they're not trying to 'count' single deck BJ? LOL

I mean BJ odds at ANY casino fluctuate quite a bit, sometimes as much as 15-20% + - or more at certain times, especially when viewed on an individual's basis. We all want to be on the good end of these percentage fluctuations don't we? I know that I do! But over time and tens of thousands of hands, it always come back to 97-98%

Dave R, your own posting on the 21st May only contradicts your own argument. If your run of luck was reversed at bossmedia.......I bet you would now be bagging their BJ too!

There's my 2 cents!

Deano

 

[hparade]

"But over time and tens of thousands of hands, it always come back to 97-98%"

--<, how many thousands exactly to prove they come back to 98%? You may even sugeest hundred of thousand and still deny if it doesn't! And many of players simply don't have that much money to prove it, so it can never be proved right?? HAHA! what an excuse!

 

[cfojoe]

I am CONVINCED that Casino On Net and The Gaming Club is biased - pre-programmed for you to lose. When you log in, the program looks up your account and then determines if you win or lose. On roulette playing colors, play one,incresing your bet when you lose, and you'll just see how, 5 or 6 times in a row,you will just keep LOSING. Played black, 12 reds consecutive came up. This is not random number generated. Some days they let you win a little.

In roulette public table, the software keeps track of YOU, not what is on the table being bet. I bet the software analizes all bets before each play to check its losing potential. The ones with high stakes get screwed plus the low stakers accounts are analyzed.

Switch to other games on the site, the same thing will happen.

I'm surprised the online casinos still have customers - doesn't everyone know they're cheating ? I feel this is a great weakness for online gambling. At a land casino, the roulette wheel is manually turned. Online a machine programmed with you account information unfairly makes the decision. Because they our out of US, they can get away with it.

Can anyone suggest another casino or software type that does NOT have this inherent dishonesty?

 

[dave_r]

I agree with you completely about Casino-On-Net.
The irony is that although the name of thier software is Random-Logic, the software is anything but. The sad thing is both Casinomeister and the OPA recommend them.

The only casino I truly have confidence in is Dr. Ho's site, since everything's live, right before your eyes. Dr. Ho may not over the best bonuses (15x playthrough) but at least you know you're dealt an honest game. Cust service is excellent, payouts are much faster than average,
and the management truly gives a damn.

 

[walter101]

If you're not in the U.S, another one you might want to look at is Tattersall's Casino. Not the same "virtual" style as Ho's, but they dont use MGS and their gov regulated (double whammy to keep the house straight).Like Dave_r's comment about Ho's, they may not throw money around, but you dont have to jump through hoops to get at what they do offer! Playthrough requirement is lower too.

 

[The Dude]

"The sad thing is that Casinomeister and the OPA recommend them"???

Okay, put your (virtual) money where your mouth is. Prove that they (CON games) are not randomly generated. If they are proven to be "crooked" as you believe, I'll remove their ads. If they are prooven to be random in nature...I'll keep the ads in place and continue recommending them.

Let a third party take a good look at the games (gamemaster, wizard of odds) and have them post their findings.

The ball is in your court.

~b

 

[dave_r]

Hahaha! Players shouldn't forget the fact that you removed them back in Jan 2000.

By Bryan Bailey (Admin) ( - 62.144.45.225) on Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 09:21
pm:
Hi Dave,

Casino-on-net was removed from Casinomeister because of their pathetic customer
service. After ignoring numerous emails they finally responded explaining that they
had changed servers and they never received my emails (even though none
bounced back). I thought all was well, but again they became unresponsive; thus
their removal.

Bryan

You recently added them back to your recommended list several months ago. It is true that they are now very responsive to customer complaints. It is also true they just put in a toll free phone # in North America.

HOWEVER, never forget this message from Yanni:
By Yanni ( - 192.116.23.107) on Monday, January 17, 2000 - 08:25 am:
Do not beleive me??? You should not beleive them!!

I will tell you what I also experienced:
1 made a real test and lost $1000 just to make the test and prove my self.

I made bets on all numbers keeping 2 numbers without any bet. Which means I bet
on 35 numbers leaving 13 and 34 with no bets. I bet $1 on each number. I kept
repeating this bet for 100 times.
The odds of the ball landing on one of the 2 numbers are 2/37 right? which means
that it should land on one of them about 6 times in my 100 spins. Do you beleive
that the ball struck 13 and 34 for more than 19 times in my 100 spin!!!!

I repeated the bet but reversed it. I bet on 13 and 34 and left all the other numbers
open. for 100 spins do you know how many time the ball landed on 13 or 34???
NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE!!!!

IT IS REALLY MADNESS FROM THEM

Or This Message:
By Yanni ( - 192.116.23.68) on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 08:51 am:
Dear guys!

Casino On Net have gone mad! They have changed management and started a big
campaign of advertisments. You can see their advertisments everywhere on the
internet.
However they seem and I am sure changed their odds!!!! Their software is BIASED
and now you CANNOT win there!!! what about having a 20 in blackjack and the
dealer recovers from 2!!!

Whatabout having a 25 blacks in roulette in a row! and when you bet on black you
get red!!!!!

Please anyone who feels this post here!

They even used to give me a 10% bonus on all my western union deposit.. They
started to deny that and they claim that they will no longer give me the bonus after I
deposited $1700 and lost them all because of their fool software!

Or this message:
By Sirius ( - 213.1.183.160) on Tuesday, January 18, 2000 - 09:57 pm:
25 is not all that unlikely, I think it's just over 66.5 million to 1 chance. That is the
chance from the first spin that another 24 in a row are the same colour. Bear in
mind that the odds are divided by the number of spins. So if you spin 1000 times
then the odds of it happening in those are about 66.5 thousand to one.

(37/18 raised to the power of 25)

 

[dave_r]

Sirius is the expert when it comes to Roulette.
(And detetecting crooked games)
He got Asian Gamble to admit a "FLAW" in thier software:

Hi,

I think you should close your Asian Gamble casino (www.theredline.com)
until you can get it programmed correctly. If you wanted to cheat you
should have been a bit more subtle. I played four numbers in roulette
250 times and never hit a number! Trust me when I say this means there
is something seriously wrong. Maybe you should sack your programmers.
You should return money to whoever has lost since you opened and close
your casino. I was slightly suspicious of the blackjack yesterday but
the roulette is definitely rigged. I wasn't satisfied with a million to
one chance or even a billion but I played until there was over a
trillion to one chance of it happening in a fair game. I expect to be
rewarded for finding this out for you.


It doesn't take a mathematician but the odds of what happened at the
roulette are the following: (34/38) to the power of 250
i.e.
1 in 1,191,708,106,582

Asian Gamble - Msg #2
Posted by Sirius 9/10/2001
I would love to know how a glitch happened to make the roulette always miss my numbers. I would find it hard to
believe in any glitch that did that. All the numbers were landed on I think. I chose different numbers at the start and
then I stayed on the same numbers for ages and after noticing a lot of 30's I moved to those numbers for ages and
the previous numbers I was on came up haha. By the way I couldn't get any games to start when I later tried to log
on again but that might just have been inflicted by the software after I complained or something. How can a glitch
avoid my numbers in roulette?

31,31,25,1,29,27,32,15,22,24,28,31,29,28,24,4,36,21,20,31,9,10,33,12,36,9,35,33,20,17,24,26,35,20,6,34,26,12,33,
30,1,33,8,14,00,15,35,25,00,26,11,27,26,23,3,3,24,28,11,23,12,31,33,3,29,30,21,36,3,20,3,28,5,20,7,27,11,8,18,26,
15,28,33,3,4,26,20,1,17,20,25,29,20,33,36,31,34,3,5,27,9,11,7,31,36,11,10,32,33,7,29,36,6,30,7,25,15,24,28,33,
00,1,10,12,5,14,11,34,2,24,0,34,24,11,32,15,2,33,36,31,32,34,31,35,2,3,27,31,24,12,9,36,7,9,18,26,24,18,26,34,

From now on I pick 33,34,35,36. Before I was mostly picking 13,16,19,22

29,23,21,00,13,2,30,16,11,19,18,22,6,7,21,15,12,14,18,3,8,31,16,9,16,14,28,2,1,4,30,20,1,2,29,20,23,0,29,5,
27,9,0,25,20,4,15,32,2,4,30,1,1,16,21,12,00,16,00,25,22,28,18,0,10,11,17,25,5,22,3,15,16,20,9,7,32,29,19,9,
20,16,11,23,30,24,31,11,20,1
-----------------

(Please bear in mind that Asian Gamble was an IGC member until the casino went out of business. Dave R)

 

[okiyan777]

casino-0n-net has swallowed twentythousand dollars of mine on thier slots...i have never had a pay-out....i almost did,but the "luck" would change....two hundred spins without a five dollar win? i requested records of my play for proof, asked them time and again for a check on thier random number generater, figuring it was on the fritz! asked for help in understanding horrid odds...and/or a examp;le of anyone who has won on thier slots...no effect...i am bankrupt...and crazy by it...for the longest time i thought it was just my luck....now i [email protected] anyone can help explain...please answer someone...it has left me in a wheelchair,60 and as broken as i could have been by any scam artist...my fault, i know for being dumb...but i trusted them because they were casinomeister trusty...thanks....

 

[dave_r]

As for slots, there really is no need for most online casinos to rig the slots. They can set it to whatever the hell they want to as long as it conforms to Vegas or Atlantic City regulations, as low as 83%. The win % is so healthy they'll get every penny from you eventually. But having said that, I'm sure there are a couple operations out there that do have it set below 83%, since noone regulates anything.

With games like bj (.05% optimal), single-0 roulette (~2.7%), and video poker ( vig depends on the paytable, but even online casinos want to be competative) there is every reason to rig the games. Its called greed. They want to steal every last cent from you as quickly as they can, since they know you may be addicted. Ofcourse they also want you to experience an occasional win here and there, and this is programmed into the software in many cases. Its called "player profiling".

As for blaming Casinomeister or the OPA for advertising Casino-On-Net, I definately will NOT. I admit I have no proof, and therefore it is pointless. As for Microgaming, I have collected a lot of valuable evidence which may eventually be released, although the data is still being evaluated by some of the top minds at a major university. Its all in spreadsheet format, and is under lock and key. If the Microgaming Corporation is ever investigated by authorities in London, I may decide to go public. But at the moment, Microgaming has an good reputation amongst most gamblers, and I enjoy playing in thier casinos myself, to hustle for bonuses (although I stay far away from the blackjack!)

 

[dave_r]

Also, many of the same software providers that are cheating thier players ARE ALSO CHEATING THIER LICENSEES. Look at what I just read at
www.startcasino.com (the same site that had the excellent tribute to the WTC.):

There are cases where some Internet Gambling Software
Providers have progammed the software to recognize bogus
players, preprogrammed to win. So, unbeknownst to the licensee,
a computer controlled player enters the casino with a credit card
and wins left and right. In addition to getting a higher percentage
of the take, the Internet Gambling Software Provider also GETS
the WINNINGS. Talking to others in the industry about the
company in question is helpful in avoiding this pitfall. [Endquote]

Dave

 

[cfojoe]

Played Dr. Ho casino. Looking at past 10 historical spins showed a good mix of red and black. Started to play black, lost over 100.00 because red came up 12 consecutive times. Something seems fishy here. I thought I would have a fairer chance of winning with a live spinner.On top of that, after I discontinued playing, black came up more consectuive times than red.

Experts say that at a live casino, consecutive colors go 7 times at most.

Corruption must exhist here too. Anyone with similiar experiences at Dr. HO?

Where online is a good place to play a fair game of roulette? NO casino ads please.

 

[spearmaster]

Dave -

Do you take everything that is printed as gospel? Startcasino gathers information in the same manner from the same people as I do - but that post above is hypothetical. Notice it doesn't name which ones are shady... LOL... I see him at every conference and we often work together and chow together... and you're right, that WTC tribute was damn good.

Cfojoe - your experts are crazy, if you'll excuse me LOL. I have watched (last week in fact) 15 red in a row, and many occasions where one color hit 7 times or more. And this is in two three-hour sessions. By the way, Dr. Ho is as honest as they come. They also operate real casinos.

 

[dave_r]

Spearmaster,
You may know Marc, and chow down junk food together at many of these conferences, but in the
above quote from startcasino.com, NOWHERE does he say this is HYPOTHETICAL!

Re-read Marc's quote above.

He simply says "THERE ARE" cases in which this has happened.

 

[spearmaster]

Has it occurred to you that this info comes from me?

 

[imcasual]

Boys, boys, can we take this slugfest offline please? I could use some additional player input on Microgaming software, too. They used to be "all that and a bag o'chips" when I started playing about 6 months ago. Then the really weird stuff started happening with their blackjack. Right about the time the Wizard downgraded their BJ status in favor of Boss Media. Bottom line, cheating players or not, the informed gamer has a responsibility to him/herself to read and ask questions to make the best decision. So my question is not "who is losing where", but where are we winning???? On a side note, is it just me or does my initial visit to a casino as a new player invariably pay off when compared with subsequent sessions?

 

[dave_r]

March 26, 2002 Press Releases

CASINO FORTUNE TERMINATES AGREEMENT WITH
MICROGAMING SOFTWARE

Casino Fortune a division of Sunny Casinos, which is
itself a division of Sunny Group of Companies,
announced today that it has discontinued using
Microgamings casino Software. This decision comes
after being unable to resolve concerns in relation to the
percentage associated with its Microgaming software.

This decision comes against the background of industry
concerns emanating from United States pressure. The
Sunny Group is concerned to maintain its clean image
and good industry reputation. Casino Fortune believes
that its players are best protected at this time by not
being offered Microgaming Software. Casino Fortune is
asking that a truly independent auditing company be
called in to verify the accuracy of payout percentages
quoted. There should also be proof that the random
number generator used by Microgaming is truly random
and not susceptible to manipulation by the software
provider. Sunny Casinos will always place its reputation
before profits.

Below is a more detailed account of the events that led
to the above decision:

An International auditing company is employed by
Microgaming and Casino Fortune to review the output of
the random number generator embedded in the
Microgaming software used by Casino Fortune. The
auditing company confirms that the generator
consistently produces random numbers and is a fair
basis for the outcome of games that have been played.
Presently, Casino Fortune is not convinced that this is
accurate.

The January 2002 audit report was released late
February. At that time Decembers report had also not
been sent. Casino Fortune repeatedly asked for the
figures, which are usually published to its customers.

On 8th February Casino Fortune was asked to sign a new
contract with Microgaming. The terms of this contract
stated, Microgaming shall not be liable to the Operator
for any indirect consequential or special damages or loss
of profits arising out of or in connection with this
Agreement. Casino Fortunes Directors voiced extreme
suspicion and wrote to Martin and Anthony Moshal
expressing this and other points of concern.

On February 13th Microgaming announced that January
figures would be late due to technical difficulties. A
serious letter was sent to both Microgaming and the
auditing company demanding an explanation as Casino
Fortune was concerned that if there were technical
difficulties in obtaining information then they could stem
from the random number generator.

On 20th February Casino Fortunes IT Director wrote
again "We are very concerned about our payout
percentages. We also have not received our audit
reports for the last 2 months. I was forced to review the
previous problem we had sometime ago regarding
payout percentages as shown in emails below. The IT
Director made reference to a November 2000 settlement
Microgaming made with several licensees after it was
suspected that they (Microgaming) had tampered with
the random numbers generator causing losses. The
Director copied letters from other operators who claimed
that the settlement represented only one fifth of what
was actually lost.

On February 22nd Microgaming, after many phone calls
from Casino Fortune, agreed that the matter would be
investigated and that a report would be sent to us from
the auditing company on the following Monday. This was
never done and up to this time Casino Fortune has not
received Decembers report. An urgent meeting of the
Sunny Group Board was held and Microgaming was given
3 weeks to provide the report.

On the weekend of March 1st, 2nd & 3rd Microgaming was
seen entering the proprietary Sunny Group credit card
server. Microgamings access was immediately cut off
and it was confirmed that no data was tampered with.
However, in the light of what occurred, Casino Fortune
became even more concerned.

On March 3rd Roger Raativer of Microgaming notified
Casino Fortune that the auditing company was
considering termination of the services they provide.
Casino Fortune attempted to contact Anthony or Martin
Moshal but received no answers to emails or phone
messages. On 11th March, Anthony Moshal sent his new
email address, which was no longer a Microgaming one.

On March 13th Microgaming asked Casino Fortune to sign
new agreements with a company in the Isle of Man. The
agreements stated the following terms "that at any time
after termination of this Agreement, the Covenanter
shall not disclose to any other person firm or company
particulars of any of Microgamings Confidential
Information.

On March 17th, credits for guest customer accounts were
tampered with. Upon investigation, it was proven that
this was not caused by any employee of Casino
Fortune. Microgaming was promptly contacted and they
denied any allegation that their staff had anything to do
with the interferences. Casino Fortune attempted to no
avail, to speak directly to the Microgaming principle,
Martin Moshal. Mr. Moshal did not respond to emails and
his cell number was no longer active.

On March 21st, Casino Fortune decided it would be in the
best interest of it customers to discontinue the
Microgaming Progressive Games until the auditors
reports and an explanation were received. Microgaming
was duly informed of this decision.

From the account provided above, on Tuesday, March
26th Casino Fortune has had no other choice but to take
drastic measures in terminating the use of
Microgamings software. Casino Fortune regrets having
to sever its ties with Microgaming, however as a
subsidiary of the Sunny Group of Companies, our
primary concern is to our customers.

During this worrisome time, Casino Fortune investigated
many other casino software providers. While most had
excellent games, one of the companies, which stood out
above the rest in terms of excellent customer benefits
and state of the art software is Playtech. Casino
Fortune is therefore pleased to announce that it has
selected Playtech as its new software provider.

 

[dave_r]

I have always been under the impression, all along, that Martin and Anthony Moshal are the owners of the Microgaming Corporation.
(Including Proc Cyber and Forward Slash)

Anyone care to take a trip back in time. Go to the "Way Back Machine" at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and view Microgaming's website back in 1995. The only email address on the whole website is that of, you guessed it, Martin Moshal.

 

[The Dude]

Man, what a mess; this should prove to be interesting as it all unfolds. I'm looking forward to MG's reply

~b

 

[imcasual]

Bryan, et al
These Microgaming complaints have been pretty pervasive of late. I'm not surprised, but not really relieved, either, as I guess at some point it's easier to blame it on bad luck or bad play. But really! Some of the blackjack hands these "dealers" have displayed beating my
easy 20 with their multi-card 21's, or, worse yet, consistently dealing my 'double down' bet, a deuce, can only have been pulled from one particular part of their collective anatomy. What really irritates me is the fact that I kept playing (and losing!) at the same casinos! And I don't feel we can hold the casinos blameless, as these patterns emerge. It becomes readily apparent which sites will let you win several small hands in a row and then e-rape you right then and there; there are others that I've learned, never take a hit on anything higher than 11. You WILL BUST. EVERY TIME. And awhile back one of this forum's alarmists showed borderline paranoia because he only began losing when he raised his wager. I experienced that, too. So for all of us who are NOT independently wealthy, the time has come for experts (like you, like Michael, etc,) to revisit the software that is available to us. I'm not comfortable at all with Odds On. It smacks of Micro Gaming attitude. Casino Fortune touts Playtech but I just visted their site and their still running MG. SO. Cryptologic? I had some good luck just recently at OnLuck and sisters. What are they running? Give us your 2 cents and I promise to give you credit for my resulting vast winnings.
(Lori)

 

[The Dude]

Okay,

Perhaps it's time to revisit the software. There seems to be a bit of a tiff between MG and the Sunny group which is coming to light with the latest press releases.

I normally rely on the Gamemaster's and Wizard of Odds findings since their expertise is much more qualified than mine. Perhaps they can have a re-go at the software.

~b

 

[The Dude]

PRESS RELEASE

27/March/2002


"Microgaming regrets to announce that the Software Licence Agreement with the Sunny Group of companies (which operates Casino Fortune, Mapau and Miami Beach Casino) has been terminated.

Sunny Group has not been settling its outstanding licensing fees for some time, and its current licensing fees were severely in arrears. Microgaming was left with no alternative but to terminate the Software Licence Agreement with the Sunny Group. Notice of the termination was given and confirmed by Microgamings lawyers.

Microgaming and the Sunny Group have had a long relationship. The termination was not taken lightly and was done with a heavy heart.

Microgaming is doing everything possible to assist the Sunny Group of casinos to finalise its data so that it can pay out its players.

Microgaming has noted a press announcement from Sunny Group, stating that the licence was terminated by the Sunny Group, and citing a variety of spurious grounds for this. The allegations made in support of these grounds in the release, are quite simply false, and are known to the Sunny Group to be false. Microgaming regrets that the Sunny Group has sought to hide its financial embarrassment in this manner".

 

[the_cpa]

Wow! I really hadn't even considered the possibility since Sunny has such a good track record of paying the players!

I don't think MG would publish this if there wasn't some solid truth in it!

Would they???

 

[The Dude]

Me thinks there is more to it than meets the eye.

Here we have two solid companies that are rolling up their sleeves and dipping their hands in some mud to be slung.

Sunny has an excellent track record. Severely in arrears? I'm sure Sunny will have a comment on that.

~b

 

[trader]

Now that this is out my last payout from Casino Mapau makes a little more sense. I had requested a payout of more than $5000 by PayPal, but someone from Sunny Group telephoned me that there were some problems that would delay a PayPal payment and asked to make a payment by wire instead. They promised to take care of the charges but my payment was $15 short and it was not my bank that took the fee. Other than that Sunny Group has always been a prompt payer and I have done quite well at Microgaming blackjack over the long term.

This is all very interesting, but it in no way proves that MG software cheats players. If I were changing software for a casino I owned, it might be a great marketing ploy to insinuate that my competitors were using defective software.

 

[johngreen]

Can't believe Sunny Group is questioning PwC's integrity. Also strange that everyone in the industry, including players knows Micki and the ethical way she ran Sunny's Online Division. So I would question why Micki left Sunny in January. The word on the street is she is with another MGS operator. Why would she go with another MGS operator, if they were so crooked ?

 

[spearmaster]

Good point

 

[mp_manager]

Were not casting any rods at anyone certainly not PWC, we do whats best for our customers. Period.

If it means discontinuing our agreement with MGS to protect out players interest then so be it.

Weve been in this business too long and worked too hard to see it all go down the drain. We have confidence that our experience and dedication to our players in this industry will prevail.

 

[the_cpa]

Were not casting any rods at anyone certainly not PWC, we do whats best for our customers. Period.

At the risk of sounding critical, The release that I read casted some very sharp rods.

Certainly wasn't a "It's been a good ride, no hard feelings, wish you the best", kind of departure.

Serious accusations were clearly made against MG and well, you don't believe the PWC reports are completely accurate.
Yes?/No?
Please explain.