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My input on Software concerns - including Playtech

banno

Dormant account
Joined
May 20, 2004
Location
Geneve, New York
I would like to add my experience and concerns with online software and Playtech as well. I am 100% convinced that there is something crooked going on. Most of my gaming has been done on Playtech and I cannot tell you how many losing sessions I have had playing Blackjack so I have quit all together until I can find a site that I fell uses legitimate TRUE odds software.

When I first started gaming online, I turned $60 into $1600 playing BJ and that was starting out at $1 per hand, gradually increasing my minimum wager as my bankroll increased. I play by basic strategy using $1 as my first wager until I win then betting $2, then $3, then $5. Most times I will continue betting $5 until I lose but if I win a couple $5 hands I may increase it to $7 until I lose.

I of couse have had losing sessions as well but have had big runs like this too. My point is that I DID HAVE winning sessions but my concerns with Playtech and others are that I have had VERY FEW winning sessions and large number of losing ones and my winning sessions are really an insignificant amount. Some losing sessions have been extremely long ones sometimes losing 80 to 100 units straight and this is using a strategy that I KNOW works at times wheather it be online or at land based casino where I turned $1500 into $5000 just beginning with $5 per hand.

Besides the patterns of the dealer pulling a 20 or 21 even with bust cards of 4,5,6 showing in "convenient" situations and the fact that I am unable to obtain hardly any runs consisting of winning more than 3 or 4 hands in a row, the major factor that leads me to believe that software is more in favor of the house moreso than the normal house odds is the number of 20's the dealer is dealt compared to the player.

I have played enough Blackjack wheather it be practicing with a deck of cards or at casinos and understand runs of 10, 12, 15 losing hands in a row but I cannot tell you how many times I have kept track during sessions online and the dealer has been dealt more 20's than the player. If in fact the software is designed to do this, it is a MAJOR advantage to the house and in my opinion is NOT legitimate and therefore unfair. The number of times that I've logged in and played for real money and amount of times that these things occur are just far too often and unrealistic in my opinion.

I have been told by a support person from Betcasino, who use Playtech, that their system uses a "random number generator" and that the system is tested over and over again. I was told that if there were patterns, a player would be able to figure them out and put the casino out of business. My response to that is a HAHA. NOT IF IT'S DESIGNED FOR THE DEALER TO GET DEALT MORE 20's AND BLACKJACKS.

As we all know before any hand is played or any strategy is applied, the dealer and the player are dealt two cards each. Then in the long run a random number generator should generate an EQUAL amount of 20's for the dealer as well as the player, correct? With my experience and the number if hands that I have played I find this to be a suspicious coincidence that nearly every time I've logged in the dealer holds the advantage in number of 20's on the initial deal. When the player needs the dealer to have a 10 count card as the hole card, in other words when a player has 18 or 19 and the dealer's up card is a 7 or 8, it will FAR TOO OFTEN have a small card then hit to better the hand. Or when the player has a 17, 18, 19 or 20 against a 10 count card, you can bet that most of the time that hole card is another 10 count card.

This holds true when hitting too. If the dealer can get on runs where he pulls 20's when hitting even on 14, 15, or 16, why can't the player? The dealer showing 4, 5, or 6 is SUPPOSED to be more favorable to the player but busting just does not occur as much as it should for the dealer and I am 100% convinced of that. When you as the player can almost guess when you're going to lose, there is something wrong. But in Blackjack you can't do anything about it.

I hope that this comes to the forefront and someone starts investigating and testing software for the TRUE randomness because I believe there are a TON of people that are getting ripped off. It's difficult enough to beat the house edge without another factor to deal with. I USED TO ENJOY logging in just betting $1 per hand because I think I'm a good enough player to hang around have some fun and not get beat up. But it's no longer enjoyable entertainment when you lose $80 or $100 in a matter of a couple of hours. My advice is if you see any of these patterns occurring, QUIT. Don't give them another dime. Maybe this is the reason casinos can "GIVE US" 10% or 20% back on net losses. Hmmm. I thought that when Blackjack is played correctly it can be almost an even game?
 
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BJ is not an even game, the house has an advantage.
If you are not counting cards, you won't gain any advantage over the house by changing your bet size. The more you play, the more you loose. Since there is no card penetration for playtech, there is no way to count cards so the house always has the upper hand on every hand.
Turning 60 into 1600 betting $1-5 per hand is highly unusual, why don't you question their fairness at that time?
Every once awhile I see similiar posts saying that "XYZ casinos is cheating by doing $%^". The problem is, without any records to back up your claim it become just your words against theirs. It's hard to take your words seriously that way.
Let me say this again, you are suppose to loose. The more you play, the more you loose. If you think they rigged their software, please show us the number.
 
If you want to play BJ online and count cards, try playing at Global Player. Many of their games don't resuffle until well into the shoe, so you may have a better chance there. I don't think that using a progressive method is the best way to go however. I imagine that Clayman or one of the other BJ experts here will be able to say for sure though.
 
As we all know before any hand is played or any strategy is applied, the dealer and the player are dealt two cards each. Then in the long run a random number generator should generate an EQUAL amount of 20's for the dealer as well as the player, correct?


This is a wrong assumption. The dealer will get more 20's just because he must draw to at least 17 while a player, in most cases, would stay on 12-16 when 2-6 showing.
 
banno said:
HateMG, I was referring to the INTITIAL 2 cards only...not drawing to 20. The dealer has gotten more 20's before any hand is played.
Can you give us some numbers so that we can judge the issue for ourselves?
 
Reply to HHCFREEBIE

HHC, I appreciate your response.

BJ is not an even game, the house has an advantage. If you are not counting cards, you won't gain any advantage over the house by changing your bet size. The more you play, the more you loose. Since there is no card penetration for playtech, there is no way to count cards so the house always has the upper hand on every hand.

>I didnt say that it was an even game. My point is that I shouldnt be losing 80 to 100 units in a matter of a couple hours when I have played for a day straight before at land casinos or hours and hours on other sites betting $1. And I understand that in the long run you're going to lose but again my point being after a losing hand I drop back to the minimim of $1 and there have been LONG stretches of just going downhill with not even a little run toward the positive. I dont plan on doing it for a living: I like to play for entertainment once in a while and if I lose a few bucks no biggie. But it is absolutely rediculous the amount of money that I have lost playing on this one site that uses Playtec. I have seen real cards dealt and I have seen patterns that this software gets into and its not pretty. Or realistic in my opinion.


Turning 60 into 1600 betting $1-5 per hand is highly unusual, why don't you question their fairness at that time?

>I'm questioning Playtec's fairness. I didnt win $1600 on Playtec: I won it on another site. If I had, I wouldnt have posted this. I also won over 200 units on yet another site too. I'm telling you that I have lost HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS playing Blackjack on Playtec. And evertime I login I get the same result. Today I deposited $50 at Omni at turned it into $100 in less than an hour. Those streaks have NEVER come for me on Playtec.

Every once in a while I see similiar posts saying that "XYZ casinos is cheating by doing $%^". The problem is, without any records to back up your claim it become just your words against theirs. It's hard to take your words seriously that way. Let me say this again, you are suppose to loose. The more you play, the more you loose. If you think they rigged their software, please show us the number.


I didnt keep track of the total number of 20 count cards the dealer has gotten on the initial deal versus mine in the thousands and thousands of hands I played but I guarantee that its more than the player. I have kept track of many sessions and I have may have them documented someplace. At this point I'm just going to avoid Playtec altogether. You are right. It's the player's word versus the casino's and I dont think there's much to do about it. If I can dig up some figures I will post them.

And let me say this again: I understand that we are supposed to lose BUT I have played enough land based cards and online games and Playtec's patterns do not make it enjoyable for me to play.

Thanks again for your response.

__________________
 
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I couldnt agree more. I agree on all your points!!
I would NEVER EVER even think about playing for my own money on a Playtech Casino.I need at least 100/100/2000 to play Playtech software. It is usually a big slaughterhouse.....
 
banno, i agree with you. You have to be careful who reposse to your post.
I play both land and online casinos, and after you play for a while u know when things dont look right. And playtec have to many winning streaks for me and others. There other places to play.
 
Response to Bethug and La$$eb

Hey guys. I knew I wasn't the only one. What a refreshing day it has been. I deposited $50 at Omni Casino and have had nearly all winning sessions today. Up to $165 in my account and quitting for the day. Now THAT's more like it.
 
Playtech BJ is so rigged, its not funny. I would advise everyone to stay away from Playtech casinos until you know what you are really getting into. Note how Playtech casinos offer so many bonuses to new and existing members.... even though they are sticky bonuses, there is no-way they should be able to afford it.

To be honest, there are many opportunites for casinos to cheat online so its really important to be careful. Stick to the trusted software providers who will pay, Crypto is definitely safe.

Btw, what is everyones opinion on Net Entertainment BJ (Cherry, Speedbet..)?
 
Still, it would be nice to have some logs to go on. All the more so, given all the negative comments on Playtech BJ that seem to surface with regularity.

Banno - if you ever dig up any results, let us know. Naturally logs would be preferable over any manual analysis of same. But, if you or anyone, ever get your logs, I'd be happy to try to analyze them for you or anyone, either publicly or privately. I'm not holding my breath on this because no one has ever taken me up on the offer, perhaps for the reasons stated below. But still, I shouldn't think it would take too long before a reasonable size database could be established. A few thousand hands from a few players and, presto, at least you have a start.

If I remember right, their logs are not "copyable and pasteable", so I don't really know how one is expected to actually get them, other than making 1000 screenshots which is of course impractical. Maybe that's by design so noone can easily analyze them. Are they dowloadable somehow? Does anyone know how to get them to your local drive?

Has anyone ever gotten any Playtech logs in any kind of a text or database format?

Can anyone even post their own summaries of BJ results like a W/L/T record?

FWIW, which isn't much, my 1107 hands of BJ (99.83% payback) and 4000 or so rounds of BJS (99.76% payback) have been dead-on expectation. So, my act of faith is to continue to believe they are fair until proven otherwise.

Oh - and of course I assume you play a different Basic Strategy at Playtech than you do in a land-based casino or at Omni. I don't see the point of comparing Playtech BJ to your land-based play, since the rules are different. If you are playing with no bonuses, I'd stick with Omni anyway just because of a slightly lower house edge and you can play the multi-deck just as if you are in AC.

Plus, it's just not fun hitting a pair of Aces. :)
 
HateMG said:
Couple days ago I requested my play logs for a particular day from Swiss casino and received it in xls format as an attachement.

That should work just fine. Guess the key is to just ask for them. Is the data arranged in columns or all in one column, one row per hand? Not that it matters much. As long as it's not some kind of embedded object.
 
Since this thread is about playtech, not only playtech's BJ, I'd like to make a comment on their 4 line JoB VP.
I played 4 line JoB VP and double up to 2x my total bet per hand. For thousands of hands played, my result is always within 99.7%-100%. With their comp points, I am actually ahead without bonuses. :)
I can dig up my records later when I get home.
As for why playtech can offer so much sticky bonuses, I think that's because some playtech casinos have shady reputation. I just can't trust them unless I sign up through a good portal. Beside, playing with sticky bonus can be brutal to my bankroll. Not every people have the stomach for them.
 
HateMG said:
It's just like regular excel spreadsheet with columns such as play ID, time, bet size, win/loss size, balance and actual mini cards showing dealer and player hands.

Sounds ideal - they've practically done the work for you.

So, banno, now that we know how easy it is to get logs, and how easy it would be to analyze them, all you have to do is get them. I know you can "talk the talk", as in "I hope that this comes to the forefront and someone starts investigating and testing software for the TRUE randomness because I believe there are a TON of people that are getting ripped off." Let that someone be you. Time to "walk the walk".

If anyone cares enough to complain about their results, I would think this a reasonable bare-minimum request to make.
 
HateMG said:
It's just like regular excel spreadsheet with columns such as play ID, time, bet size, win/loss size, balance and actual mini cards showing dealer and player hands.
I have a spreadsheet that I use to analyze MG Playcheck data. PM me if you are interested in analyzing your spreadsheet.
 
Response to all about my concerns

Hello everyone. I appreciate everyone's input on my concerns and have breifly read the responses. I am off from work for the weekend and the computer I am using at home has dial-up and is extremely slow so I will get to work on this when I return to work on Monday. Again, thanks for the input and excuse my tone in my first few posts. I was just a tad bit aggitated. Reiterating some of the responses I've received, I have played enough blackjack and just have a funny feeling that something isn't right.

Clayman, I have heard quite a bit about you in my short time here and am anxious to obtain more input on strategies and your experience.

Oh by the way, still climbing uphill at Omni with a few hands I played this weekend on their download. Deposited $50 at the end of the week and up to $220, betting conservatively I might add. Talk to you all later.
 
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Update on game logs

One thing I am able to do on my PC at home that doesn't take a half hour is send an e-mail. :-). I put in a request to betcasino for game logs as far back as they have them, preferrably from the first of the year and got the following response. So hopefully I can get them and you can check them out, Clayman.

Good day ,
Thank you for your e-mail and for choosing BetCasino.

I have forwarded your request to my manager we, should have a response for you by tomorrow, we greatly apologize for the delay.

Sincerely,
Customer Support
www.betcasino.com
 
It would be patently adsurd for a large software company like playtech to blatantly cheat and give the dealer extra 20s, or any other form of cheating for that matter. Why would they risk their entire business to take a couple hundred extra bucks out of someone? That's chump change compared to what they would lose if they were caught. A small independant like casino bar or somebody has very little to lose by taking peoples money but Playtech? Let's be realistic. I have played over $800,000 worth of blackjack at online casinos mostly flat betting between 2-5 dollars. I have played many different software providers and have kept records on wagers and winnings for all that I have played. My combined payout for all casinos including playtech, MG, boss, crypto, wagerlogic, RTG, odds on, IGlobal, and a few reputable independants is 99.27% I will readily admit that the difference between that and the house edge is made up of mis-clicks and strategy mistakes, which we all make more often than we realize. My worst results have actually come from crypto at 97.9% (not an overly large sample, got tired of wasting my time) and my best from RTG at 101.1% due to some great luck and the fact that their blackjack games C21 and pontoon offer the best odds this side of single deck BJ. My opinion : among the major software providers, NOBODY IS CHEATING. Every time I have had a horrendous session and wanted to be a crybaby and say the casino cheated, I have requested my gamelogs and analyzed them. Every time, even when the losses have been so horrible that I was sure something was wrong, there has been nothing statistically remarkable about my results. Losing streaks happen, even long ones. Yet day after day someone else is convinced that MG or boss or Playtech or somebody is running a huge conspiracy to take their 50 bucks. PFFFFFT. I just finished playing at an odds on casino where in the space of 2 1/2 hours my balance shot up 600 bucks, all flat betting. The chances are even better for the reverse to happen, and I was prepared to accept it if it did. Yet all day all we hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE I LOST MY ALLOWANCE BOO FRIGGIN HOO!
I better stop before I pop a vein. . . :mad:
it's just really getting on my nerves . . . :mad:
sorry for all the yelling . . . :o

that's all I have to say about that.
 
angahar said:
My opinion : among the major software providers, NOBODY IS CHEATING.

Happens to be my opinion too but real nice to hear it from somebody else.

My numbers are

RTG 100.4% payback (18000 hands)
Crypto multi-deck 97.26% ( 8300 hands - I try not to play it anymore)
Crypto single deck 101.92% (really small sample)
IGW 95.03% (Small sample but I'll need a really good bonus to play again)
Micro Single-deck 101.05% (44,000 hands)
Micro double-deck 95.03% (small sample)
CON 99.15%
Playtech 99.83% (small sample)
All Casinos together 99.90%

All assuming $1/hand of course (no effect of bet sizes)

Banno - Not sure what you may have heard "about" me but there are many, many more experienced than I on these boards. That's what makes them so worthwhile to read.
Nothing wrong with a "funny feeling" - that's why it's good to analyze. I look forward to looking at whatever logs you may receive. Just let me know whenever via here or PM or e-mail.
 
This is interesting Clayman . . . Your large sample of results is slightly beating expectations (nice work, BTW) and my large sample of results is slightly lagging behind expectations (little sloppier probably). So if you combine our results we have a giant sample (close to $1.5 million I'd say, depending on what you are betting per hand) from all over the net that is probably within .1% of expected return. Amazing what happens when people keep track of things! Of course the miracle of the internet is that both of us have gotten less than 100% return on our money yet I have a healthy profit to show for it and I'm guessing you do, too . . .
I should point out that while I believe we are getting a fair shake out of the major software providers I definately encourage a hearty analysis of all strange or unexpected results. Like I said I usually check gamelogs on my losing sessions, not necessarily because I think I will find something but because it is our paranoia that makes it infeasible for the casinos to cheat. So to clarify I am not suggesting we trust all online casinos automatically.
Happy gambling everybody
 
Response to Angahar

Angahar, first of all I appreciate you posting your opinions and information and obviously you seem to be much more knowlegeable than myself and many of us here. You make some great points. I have not been deeply involved in the analysis like you and Clayman are.

I don't however appreciate your BOO HOO, I lost my allowance reference or a the conspiracy theory to "take your 50 bucks". Some of us take losing a little harder than others. And let me repeat myself for the 5th time. I have lost HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS if not $1000 playing Playtec since this past fall or winter betting conservatively. Now if you have the bankroll to absorb that amount of loss without a rotten feeling in your gut then God Bless You.

Understand that seeing how I started this post because of my concerns and you responded with your comments it's difficult for me not to take this personally given your wording. Wheather you assumed that my post came from some young, incompetent, naive fool who scraped up $50 and lost it in a couple hours and just wanted to vent, or you were referring to the numerous other threads that you've read, only you know.

I actually would have preferred just the information for which I would have appreciated and extended my gratitude. Or a straight forward "stop being a f*#&ing whiner", for which I would have responded "F*&# You very much" but not the information along with the cross-eyed references.

I'm an easy going guy for the most part, my friend and am looking to learn something here. I did apologize if my first few posts appeared to be so negative or as you said "a crybaby". Crybaby's get on your nerves and those who are more knowledgeable in a certain areas and have a hard time relaying that information in a respectful manor get on mine. Good Luck.
 
Points taken. I apologize for being an asshole. That rant had been brewing for a while and most of the points were not relevant to your case, so I should have just started a thread with it so that it wasn't leveled at a particular person. Another thing that gets on my nerves is arrogant jerks and my first post represents me that way, so thanks for calling me on it and again I apologize.

happy gambling! (not in a smart-ass way this time . . )
 
LOL. I do love these "nobody cheats becuse they don't need to" posts. Innocence is alive and well. Crooks cheat because that's what crooks do best.

My take is as follows. Stress, my personal opinion:

Microgaming: Currently clean as a whistle. Pre-2002ish, cheating. Heard about the OCA and pulled their socks up fast. If a full set of tests is ever done on the (hopefully now error-free) data before the OCA folk get their kneecaps broken, it'll be revealed. Maybe too time-consuming a task, however. And probably too much risk to the kneecaps.

Crypto: Clean, but I acknowledge many, many complaints about the blackjack game.

RTG: Clean. I've seen some crazy shit at RTG, including a few sessions at least four SDs out. Coincidentally enough, I was playing high stakes at the time. Still, by and large it seems OK.

Boss: Rigged.

Playtech: Rigged.

I daresay any of the above could change at any time. I hope it doesn't. I like MG, Crypto and RTG software and would be sorry if they started / went back to shaving off those few extra percentage points, and since I bear neither Boss nor Playtech any particular malice and I know they're happy being the crooked pondlife scum they are, I hope they carry on cheating and stay happy.
 
Clayman said:
My numbers are...

I'm astonished, and confused, at how low your numbers are - I thought you played a lot, and pre-2000 to boot?

LOL, I played twice as many RTG hands last week as you've played in your entire online gambling life. Microgaming isn't far behind, either.

Either I had you figured all wrong, or I'm one sick addict. :)
 
playtech and boss cheating?

So how is it that these softwares are rigged and yet no one has ever been able to prove it? We are a bunch of paranoid gamblers with total access to all our gamelogs so you would think that someone would be able to find something. Also you have to think about the large number of people (programmers, execs, mathematicians, casino owners, etc) that would have to be "in" on the fact that the software is cheating. Somebody quits or gets a different job and decides to blow the whistle - then what happens. I am not buying the arguement that the casino thugs would come and kill him/her. That's a little too Tom Clancy for me. It's just extemely impractical to run such a massive conspiracy for a long period of time. The casinos make money without cheating. The costs of running their bonus programs pale in comparison to the overhead of operating a land casino, and for every bonus hunter that squeezes $100 out of them there is someone who throws $400 in the slot machines. For a major operator like playtech it would be an extremely bad gamble to risk that for whatever gains they could get out of cheating. We may have to agree to disagree on this one as I just don't see it happening. My personal results, while statistically and practically insignificant to the big picture, are what is most important to ME, and they tell me to keep playing all the major software providers.

Bryan - Do you know any boss or playtech owners or execs? If so, what is your take on the assertion that they are crooked pond scum?

Anyone have any non - anecdotal evidence to present one way or the other?
 
caruso said:
LOL, I played twice as many RTG hands last week as you've played in your entire online gambling life. Microgaming isn't far behind, either.

I have 92,000+ BJ hands in my database wagering only $771,264. That's it.

As far as OCA goes, my results have been within expectation since day 1 in Nov 1999, a buy 50, get 100, play $150 deal. Whether it's OCA or ECogra, I think, ultimately, believing a game to be fair is an act of faith.

Congratulations if you played 21 days of BJ last week at 6 hands per minute 24 hours a day. :)

I'm not much of a gambler. I play less all the time. I've just tried to be the best Bo' 'Ho I can be.

As I said, there are many, many people with more experience than I.
 
angahar said:
We are a bunch of paranoid gamblers with total access to all our gamelogs so you would think that someone would be able to find something.

I really don't see what's so hard of publicly providing, let's say, Playtech logs.

5 or 10 players with a few thousand hands each would be a start. It could be a Player's Database. Let people make of it what they will. I've never requested logs because I've never had a reason to.

When you say "close to $1.5 million I'd say, depending on what you are betting per hand", I want to stress that my results always assume flat-betting, so bet size is assumed to be irrelevant.
 
I agree with you caurso, playtec and boss is rigged. Dont need to show no logs. I will stick to micro, rtg and intercasino for a fair game.

People will keep playing playtec for the bonus, which is sad. between rtg and micro this weekend , i made over 1700 bucks. ( with out a bonus)
 
Clayman said:
Congratulations if you played 21 days of BJ last week at 6 hands per minute 24 hours a day. :)

I think caruso was only talking about RTG blackjack which you said you had played 18,000 hands of. That is perfectly possible to achieve in a week, requiring only 8 hours a day for 7 seven days at 6 hands a minute :notworthy.
hehe....could probably play 12 hands a minute because RTG is so fast, but its a lot of hands of BJ :thumbsup:
 
angahar said:
So how is it that these softwares are rigged and yet no one has ever been able to prove it?
Because they're not rigged.

angahar said:
We are a bunch of paranoid gamblers with total access to all our gamelogs so you would think that someone would be able to find something. Also you have to think about the large number of people (programmers, execs, mathematicians, casino owners, etc) that would have to be "in" on the fact that the software is cheating. Somebody quits or gets a different job and decides to blow the whistle - then what happens.
Nothing has been said because there isn't anything to say.

angahar said:
I am not buying the arguement that the casino thugs would come and kill him/her. That's a little too Tom Clancy for me. It's just extemely impractical to run such a massive conspiracy for a long period of time. The casinos make money without cheating.
Ditto, they make money anyway - there is no incentive to cheat.

angahar said:
Bryan - Do you know any boss or playtech owners or execs? If so, what is your take on the assertion that they are crooked pond scum?
Yes, I know a number of Playtech operators and execs, and for the most part they seem pretty legit. There are one or two operators that misbehave periodically, but that's about it.

Bethug and Caruso: to make the comments of being crooked pond scum is irresponsible and overemotional. Stating that Boss or/and Playtech cheats without any data to back this up is pure crap.
 
Response from Bet Casino on Playtech logs

Received a response on my request for game logs:

Good day ,

I have received a response from the casino supervisor with regards to the request which you sent us on Saturday, to this the response is, that we are not obligated to supply an entire game log history for any reason, if you have a query with a particular game (s), hand (s) we will review the said query and supply the you with details of our findings.

If you are not comfortable with this decision please feel free to contact the supervisor for further discussions.
 
banno said:
...we are not obligated to supply an entire game log history for any reason, if you have a query with a particular game (s), hand (s) we will review the said query and supply the you with details of our findings.

You bet your ass I'm not comfortable with that decision.

What does ECogra say about a player having no right to his game history?

Maybe, after all, no one can prove anything because no one can get a complete log.

Too bad one can't get one's own logs right from the casino, like you can with Inter and, I think, MG. Guess they have nothing to fear.
 
Reponse on request for game logs

I think once the first week in June comes and my account is credited with the 10% back on net losses that Betcasino provides, I will blow it and wash my hands with these folks. My suspicions about the fairness of their games and their response to my request warrant an e-mail expressing my displeasure along with a request to close the account. Unless there is something else I can do. Comments or suggestions are welcome.
 
casinomeister , do you play black jack on land? do you play black jack online everyday?

I can say this rtg, micro, intercasino casinos, play way different than boss and playtec casinos

everytime i play playtec, i get 13 to 15 losing hands, every time. and i am not the only one. I can see once and a while, but every dam time. something wrong. There video was said to a little shacky and any real black jack player dont like playtec black jack.

Casinomeister and a few other webmasters, ask the casino to let some run a indepent test, until then playtec and boss are black is fixed in my eyes and others.

If i can win most of the time at the rtg , micro and intercasino and cant win over 100 bucks at playtec , something is wrong. Wake up, we need some one to really test the fairest of the game.
 
Bryan - since the time you complained about my stating opinions as "fact", you'll notice all my subsequent comments on this matter are INVARIABLY prefaced with an "IMO" statement. There is nothing irresponsible or emotional about stating one's opinion.

It's my opinion that MG, Crypto and RTG do not currently cheat.

It's my opinion that Playtech and Boss cheat.

People are free to ignore my opinion for the baseless drivel it is and go on patronizing software that I believe cheats. I stand by my opinion.

...we are not obligated to supply an entire game log history for any reason, if you have a query with a particular game (s), hand (s) we will review the said query and supply the you with details of our findings.

That is quite hilarious. Ain't got nothing to hide, these boys.
 
Suggestion for Banno

I suggest giving one more try on the logs. It is unacceptable for a casino not to give you your game logs when requested. I have never been denied my logs but then again I have always asked for single sessions or at most two sessions. I don't know anything about their side of the software but it might be a huge pain in the butt to pull the logs on all the different dates and compile them into one document to send to you. Try sending them an email along the lines of this:

"I understand that my request for all my logs is unusual, however I ask you to please reconsider. There is always debate online as to whether blackjack software is producing a fair result. This debate has made me uneasy about investing my entertainment dollars on a regular basis with any online casino.
I simply want to review my playing logs to confirm that they are in line with reasonable results. This will give me the confidence to continue playing online. I'm sure you agree that allowing player's access to their logs is an important part of the casino/player relationship.
regards,"

If the casino still denies this request then they should be considered for the rogue list. Denying gamelogs to me dissolves any trust that may have existed between player and casino.
 
banno said:
I think once the first week in June comes and my account is credited with the 10% back on net losses that Betcasino provides, I will blow it and wash my hands with these folks. My suspicions about the fairness of their games and their response to my request warrant an e-mail expressing my displeasure along with a request to close the account. Unless there is something else I can do. Comments or suggestions are welcome.
Did you loose your mind?
You have lost so much money with them and you don't even think they are dealing a fair game, why do you still want to play?
I'd suggest you to stop gambling, at least for awhile. Take the 10% cash back and do something else.
angahar said:
I suggest giving one more try on the logs. It is unacceptable for a casino not to give you your game logs when requested. I have never been denied my logs but then again I have always asked for single sessions or at most two sessions. I don't know anything about their side of the software but it might be a huge pain in the butt to pull the logs on all the different dates and compile them into one document to send to you. Try sending them an email along the lines of this:

"I understand that my request for all my logs is unusual, however I ask you to please reconsider. There is always debate online as to whether blackjack software is producing a fair result. This debate has made me uneasy about investing my entertainment dollars on a regular basis with any online casino.
I simply want to review my playing logs to confirm that they are in line with reasonable results. This will give me the confidence to continue playing online. I'm sure you agree that allowing player's access to their logs is an important part of the casino/player relationship.
regards,"

If the casino still denies this request then they should be considered for the rogue list. Denying gamelogs to me dissolves any trust that may have existed between player and casino.
Now that's a really great suggestion. I always prefer the "soft" approach and more often than not I'll get what I want without hurting anyone's feeling.
 
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Response to HHCFREEBIE

hhcfreebie said:
Did you loose your mind?
You have lost so much money with them and you don't even think they are dealing a fair game, why do you still want to play?
I'd suggest you to stop gambling, at least for awhile. Take the 10% cash back and do something else.

HHC, I guess I should have clarified the 10% cash back. It's actually a wagering bonus...10% back on net losses from the previous month's losses and wagering requirements apply, so I wouldn't be able to withdraw it. That's why I said I was going to blow it because I know damn well I'm not going to win anything with it. LOL.

I have been doing just fine on Omni since late last week. Deposited $50 and my balance is currently at $320. Just needed to get off the Playtec.

Thanks for your response.
 
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banno said:
HHC, I guess I should have clarified the 10% cash back. It's actually a wagering bonus...10% back on net losses from the previous month's losses and wagering requirements apply, so I wouldn't be able to withdraw it. That's why I said I was going to blow it because I know damn well I'm not going to win anything with it. LOL.

I have been doing just fine on Omni since late last week. Deposited $50 and my balance is currently at $320. Just needed to get off the Playtec.

Thanks for your response.
I am sorry I jumped to the conclusion too soon.
If you have to play, why not play other games?
Their 4 line Jack or better video poker offer better odds than black jack. Since their "doubling" feature also count as wager requirement, this game is way better than BJ.
If you normally play $4 per hand in BJ, you can play 10 cents 4 line JoB for a total of 0.1x5x4=2 dollars bet per hand, doubling up to $4 dollars. This will give you about the same "excitment" or risk you are willing to tolerate, only with much better odds.
 
bethug said:
everytime i play playtec, i get 13 to 15 losing hands, every time.
This is exactly the sort of thing that would show up in the logs, so why are you saying "Dont need to show no logs."
 

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