Intercasino has confiscated me $8200

[Clayman]

"most were on the same computer and that they all used the same NETeller accounts."

Wouldn't this be sheer stupidity of gargantuan proportions? Not that I even see how 2 colluders could be playing simultaneously on the same computer.

"This was first brought to our attention by other players on the poker tables"

Lucky for Inter, I guess. Doesn't the software itself have any way of detecting "colluding patterns". Surely whatever it is other players seem to notice could be built-in to the software? I would guess investigating complaints about possible collusion would be a full-time job.

"We have therefore locked the referring affiliate's referred accounts"

Does this allow for the possibility that the affiliate may have referred some players who actually play an honest game but whose accounts would nonetheless have been locked?

And it took a month for Inter to figure this out?

It sort of seems to me they were luckier than a blind squirrel finding some nuts in a forest in the winter in the dark.

Would I be exaggerating in saying it seems colluding could be more the norm than the exception given the unlikllihood of it being detected in a timely manner?

[cipher]

Great post Clayman,

There's way too many pieces to this puzzle that just don't fit.

[hhcfreebie]

"most were on the same computer and that they all used the same NETeller accounts."

Wouldn't this be sheer stupidity of gargantuan proportions? Not that I even see how 2 colluders could be playing simultaneously on the same computer.

Maybe he used a router. That way both computers share the same IP/ISP and he can play in front of the computers simutaneously.
When I was crazy about MMRPG (Everquest), I saw lots of people playing more than 2 characters at once. I always wonder how they can input so many commands at once, hell they can even talk to each other to conceive his/her identity.
I don't know much about poker. If we know all the "people" sit with me are actually the same person, he just play more hands and the only advantage he has is that he can see more cards. I have no idea how can he beat the others so easily with mutiple accounts.

[benroles]

hhcfreebie - the thing is that with more players that are actually the same person they can force money out of other people.

Say there are three plays, 1, 2 and 3. However, 1 and 2 are infact the same person. What this person can do is keep raising as player 1 and then reraising as 2. Even if 3 has a reasonable hand they may get scared thinking 'at least 2 people have very good hands' and ultimately fold their hands. It doesn't matter whether at the showdown 1 or 2 wins, because they are the same person.

It's kind of like the actual poker tactic where you can 'buy' a pot with nothing just be pretending to have a very good hand - but obviously this becomes very easy to play if you actually are playing more than once - just force the legitamate players out of the game.

[hhcfreebie]

Say there are three plays, 1, 2 and 3. However, 1 and 2 are infact the same person. What this person can do is keep raising as player 1 and then reraising as 2. Even if 3 has a reasonable hand they may get scared thinking 'at least 2 people have very good hands' and ultimately fold their hands. It doesn't matter whether at the showdown 1 or 2 wins, because they are the same person.

It's kind of like the actual poker tactic where you can 'buy' a pot with nothing just be pretending to have a very good hand - but obviously this becomes very easy to play if you actually are playing more than once - just force the legitamate players out of the game.

Just a thought.
If I knew they are exactly the same person, I'll not be scared. By playing strictly by the pod odds (maybe bluff once every 20 times), other players might do just as well when they face the cheating "players".
Come to think of it, what will happen if the cheating players do nothing but keep raising and ignore the pot odds completely? Others play by the pot odds will bleed them to death in no time.

[Aindreas_Daoc]

"most were on the same computer and that they all used the same NETeller accounts."

Wouldn't this be sheer stupidity of gargantuan proportions? Not that I even see how 2 colluders could be playing simultaneously on the same computer.

Well, Intercasino Poker is a connected to something like 7 other pokerrooms that share the same platform, so it is possible that someone makes an account at Intercasino and at another linked poker room, and then logs into both of them and sits at the same table.

One would assume that there are software detection in place at the main server that will disallow people who funded their account from the same Neteller account and who have the same IP address to sit at the same table eventhough the poker accounts are at different pokerrooms. But apparently there isn't, which while disappointing, is not surprising considering how new (and bad) Cryptologic poker software is.

"This was first brought to our attention by other players on the poker tables"

Lucky for Inter, I guess. Doesn't the software itself have any way of detecting "colluding patterns". Surely whatever it is other players seem to notice could be built-in to the software? I would guess investigating complaints about possible collusion would be a full-time job.

This is also very disappointing, but again not surprising. Reputable poker rooms would certainly have this in place. It would among other things check betting patterns, seating patterns, SD and Win rate data for players, etc. Then, if something out of the ordinary occurs, it would flag the account for review by a human (preferably someone with decent knowledge of poker) to determine what is going on.

But as is evidenced above, they do not even have a the most basic check in place that ensures accounts that are clearly operated by the same person (and it doesn't get more obvious than same Neteller account, and same IP address) from sitting together, so what are the odds of them having advanced protection?

Other poker rooms will immediately place a check on an account that is created using the same funding method and same computer (in the case of husband and wife, for instance) to never be able to sit together in a ring game. Yet this guy, if what is alleged is true, managed to do just that, and cheat people out of 8 grands over a period of several months, until finally some alert players notified them.

This is the most obvious form of collusion, and them letting it go for months borders on criminal neglect. If they can't detect this until a player notifies them, what about more advanced colluders, who actually have seperate Neteller accounts, different computers and different IP addresses? What about more subtle form of colluding that even good and alert players can't catch immediately (would require tons of hand history data to establish abnormal patterns)?

This certainly harms my confidence in Intercasino (or other Cryptologic rooms) to provide a fair game.

[cipher]

Aindreas Daoc,

That's one hell of a 4th post. Very thought provoking. Have a good one.

[jetset]

That was a thought provoking post alright. Every article on online poker that I have read says that collusion is a major fear and disincentive for players. Poker rooms seem to know it, too so it is understandable that the latter will try to stamp it out wherever it is uncovered before too many players get burned.

Knowing how fast fraudsters are at identifying and exploiting opportunities to rip off both casinos and other players, one can make a confident bet that these crooks are active out there and from all sorts of geographical locations, and if many players (presumably at least some of whom are experienced) were complaining about this guy then there is presumably some foundation to Intercasino's claim, possibly backed up by other information unearthed during an investigation.

Most poker sites seem to claim that they have effective anti-collusion software without disclosing what its capabilities are (for obvious reasons) but I sometimes wonder how effective these measures can be in practice. Has anyone read up on this or have expert opinion on it?

If Intercasino are "redistributing" Interwhateverhisnumberis's confiscated funds among his victims that seems to be the fairest solution to me.

And where is Interwhatever now?

[inter1178502]

I think that intercasino's appraisal to me is base.i have only one account and play at home or company.As for what they talked about , I feel strange !

Only won money.Why involve so many things?I am more and more confused.What collusion? affiliate? what group?

I do not want to explain anything now, it becauses seem now intercasino is slandering me . So long as I ask intercasino to announce my game record. Should give out the reason or the evidence .

by the way,thank you for help,casinomeister

[Casinomeister]

I think that intercasino's appraisal to me is base.i have only one account and play at home or company.As for what they talked about , I feel strange !

Only won money.Why involve so many things?I am more and more confused.What collusion? affiliate? what group?

I do not want to explain anything now, it becauses seem now intercasino is slandering me . So long as I ask intercasino to announce my game record. Should give out the reason or the evidence .

by the way,thank you for help,casinomeister

Oh my Gawd! Not another casino SCAM!! I am shocked!!

I am sorry you are feeling so strange and that this has confused you. No need to explain anything else, I'm sure most of the members here know what's up. The way that they slandered your good name of inter1178502 is most alarming. I hope you will receive an apology soon....