Grand Virtual complaint

[operarocks]

They have stolen over $2,000 from me. Below is the complained I've filed with the OGA, who ALSO has not responded in any way shape or form to my compaints. I will be refiling another a complaint and also complaining to the Kahnawake Gaming Commision regarding this situation:

I have created one account at what I now understand to be several "sister" casino sites. Casino Elegance, Casino Treasure, Imperial Casino, Casino Glamour, Casino Fantasy and Casino Sakana.

I busted out on two of these sites. On Imperial Casino I managed to win around $1,400 and on Casino Elegance I won approximately $750. The casino has locked all of my six accounts and refuses to pay me either the $1,400 or the $750 I won in addition to holding a $50 deposit and a $100 deposit I made on Casino Treasure and Casino Elegance. When I contacted their customer service I was told only that the operations department had decided to permanently block my account with no explanation of why this had happened. When I responded and asked why this had happened I received this response:


According to our record, all of your six account were created on the
same day and received NETeller bonus.

It's our policy that abusing the promotions by creating multiple Player
accounts will be barred from using the Casino for life.

Please read the following policy.

"Abuse. Players must play as individuals and in the spirit of enjoying
the Casino real-money Games as fun and exciting entertainment. Players
may not abuse the promotions by creating multiple Player accounts or
acting as part of a syndicate to defraud the Casino, nor may they cash
out winnings without participating in legitimate real-money play and
satisfying bonus requirements. Any Player deemed by Casino Management
to be attempting to abuse the promotions will be barred from using the
Casino for life. Decisions regarding abuse will be made solely by
Casino Management and all decisions are final. Casino Management may
and will bar Players without indicating the reason. "

I played this group of casinos because I enjoyed the software and because I was referred to them by a friend who told me that they were very prompt in paying any winnings. I feel taken advantage of that these casinos are unethically stealing over $2,000 from me which is quite a bit of money, I'm also very disappointed because I was very excited to have won money for once playing online. I did not play any of the restricted games (I only enjoy playing blackjack really).

I responded with:

"I will address every aspect you point out:

"Abuse. Players must play as individuals and in the spirit of enjoying
the Casino real-money Games as fun and exciting entertainment. Players
may not abuse the promotions by creating multiple Player accounts or
acting as part of a syndicate to defraud the Casino, nor may they cash
out winnings without participating in legitimate real-money play and
satisfying bonus requirements. Any Player deemed by Casino Management
to be attempting to abuse the promotions will be barred from using the
Casino for life. Decisions regarding abuse will be made solely by
Casino Management and all decisions are final. Casino Management may
and will bar Players without indicating the reason. "

I did not create multiple accounts at any of your casinos, I do enjoy playing blackjack and figured I was simply getting the best value by signing up at several sites, that was not me trying to abuse bonuses, just shopping for the best deals. I have participated 100% in real money play, I had no abusive habits such as withdrawing before all wagering requirements had been met, I did not act as part of a syndicate. You have no standing on which to say I am an abusive player. I do think however you are an abusive casino who is unwilling to pay any winners. Again, unless you can specifically tell me what I did that was against your terms and conditions (and creating an account at each of your sister casinos is NOT against you published terms and conditions as they are each their own entity) I demand that you pay me my full cashout on the two sites that I won on and refund my deposits at the other two sites where you have locked my account. I have violated no policies, and you have no right to treat me this way. It is extremely frustrating to finally win at a casino only to have them seize my money in a gangster, renegade fashion. If you wanted to exclude me from participating on your sites, you could have easily chosen to block me immediately upon signup rather than waiting to lock my account as I deposited. The creation of my additional accounts happened after my initial cashouts and should have had zero affect on the cashouts I had already requested. For all of these reasons your actions have been impolite, unethical, and incorrect.

I alos wish to point out that you responded with CasinoLux's terms and conditions which aren't even applicable to this situation due to the fact that I did NOT open an account at Casino Lux.

I demand that you pay me my full cashouts on the two sites I won, and refund my full deposit on the two accounts you seized my money from me. I also have noted that you have refused to provide me a phone number where I can contact a manager to discuss the situation directly. Again, if you do not pay me my full amount on my two owed cashouts and refund my deposits 100% on my other accounts, I am prepared to launch a fullscale complaint with the OGA, and post the contents of these emails and your absolute refusal to answer any of my points or provide a contact number to discuss this issue further. I insist that this be escalated directly to a supervisor or a manager, and I insist to deal with him directly and by telephone as well as email if you continue to refuse to pay me."

Ironically, they provide a link to Casino Lux which is a casino I haven't even played at.

It is clear that their only complaint is that I have made an account at more than one of the casinos they operate, but that is nowhere listed in their terms and conditions, nor is it clear to the player.

It seems clear that they are taking advantage and stealing money from players because it would be very simple to block an account on sign up by running an email address, name, or street address through a database to see if any other matches exist. I used the same phone number, address, neteller account, personal information, etc on each casino and there is absolutely no way that the casino can construe that I was trying to present anyone else than myself at the casino.

I expect my accounts to be unlocked, a full payment of all of my winnings, and a refund of my deposits on the two sites where I had not yet had an opportunity to play.

I have already written the casino several emails and threatened to go to the OGA as well as complain on several player advocacy sites such as Casinomeister that my friend suggested. They have responded to my emails to tell me basically that I was out of luck, and they have refused multiple times to provide me with any sort of phone number to discuss the matter further, or to forward it to a manager so that I may discuss it with them.

They will not answer any of my relevant questions, such as if they made the decision to lock the new accounts I've created, that should have no bearing on the first sites I played from that I had a pending cashout from.

They also blatantly lied by telling me they'd reopen my first account (which would obviously include paying me my winnings) and then reneged on that offer.

I want my full payment of my winnings and my deposits on my two locked accounts refunded. I've pitched a bitch as well, got a response to which I asked some additional questions and then got no further response.

These guys will take your money if you give them any reason whatsoever.

Do not play on:

www.casinolux.com
www.imperialcasino.com
www.casinoelegance.com
www.casinotreasure.com
www.casinofantasy.com
www.casinosakana.com
www.casinoglamour.com

or any other that is on Grand Virtual software.

Their licensing agent is a joke, its been more than a month now and they haven't responded to my complaint, their customer service as detailed above is clearly terrible, and they blatantly steal deposits and winnings.

[jetset]

This sounds very similar to a case in which The Wizard banned Gambling Federation recently (see this week's Casinomeister News under Casino Cautions)

I would recommend you take this up with the Grand Virtual rep on this site who has been helpful and efficient in assisting players in the past. This may be an over-hasty decision by an inexperienced Support person.

Unless these people specify that the "multiple accounts" rule embraces every casino in their group or using their software, and not just to the more conventional "multiple accounts at one casino" then they are obliged to pay you in full (I'm assuming you have complied with the T&Cs and have no fraudulent record)

And if they do have a rule that prohibits players from opening accounts at more than one of their casinos and/or licensees, then they need to have this upfront and in bold, along with a list of the casinos to which it applies.

[tennis_balls]

you opened an account at 6 different casinos owned by the same firm on the same day??? now that's gambling!

[giga2]

They owe me money from September 2004 and I warned then that they should be avoided


I made also one or two casinos in the group if I remember well

I won at Casino Lux $5875 and they returned only my deposit back.


I published my case at the winneronline.com forum and then I figured out it happened also to couple of more players from my country Israel.


One of the player fought for his money better than me and got paid after the Casinomeister and others helped him.

I have not got the money from them as yet and I hope now people will better believe that on large cashouts these guys are dangerous


Here is the link to the full story at winneronline.com

http://mb.winneronline.com/showthrea...light=unfairly



Do you think I still have a chance to get my winnings from them ?

[caruso]

Originally Posted by operarocks

Below is the complained I've filed with the OGA, who ALSO has not responded in any way shape or form to my compaints. I will be refiling another a complaint and also complaining to the Kahnawake Gaming Commision regarding this situation.

Forget all about the "OGA" - it's owned by Grand Virtual - and Kahnawake too, who are an industry joke as far as "licensing" goes.

Contact the GV rep here:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...liatedweb.html

...and here's a potentially relevant thread from a dispute I had:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...old-issue.html

I'm pretty sure I know how this one will pan out, but let's wait and see what happens.

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by operarocks

They have stolen over $2,000 from me. Below is the complained I've filed with the OGA, who ALSO has not responded in any way shape or form to my compaints. I will be refiling another a complaint and also complaining to the Kahnawake Gaming Commision regarding this situation:

My tip is not to accuse a casino of being thieves, etc., when they still have $2k of your money and you want them to pay it. Feel free to abuse them after you have been paid.

But until then, accusing them of being thieves, even if they are, is not going to help you achieve what should be your goal, that is getting your $2k back.

[operarocks]

Originally Posted by thelawnet

My tip is not to accuse a casino of being thieves, etc., when they still have $2k of your money and you want them to pay it. Feel free to abuse them after you have been paid.

But until then, accusing them of being thieves, even if they are, is not going to help you achieve what should be your goal, that is getting your $2k back.

That is good advice, except that I've been dealing with them for almost two months. I've PAB'd, complained to OGA who they are licensed through as well as the Kahanawake gaming commission, and been lied too regarding the status of my account, flat-out ignored in my last three emails, and they also refuse to provide any kind of contact number so I can discuss the situation with a manager directly. I've PM'd the Grand Virtual operator, who told me she'd look into the matter when she's done travelling. If they pay me, I'll update the thread to say so, but considering the track record of what has already happened, I feel players deserve a warning.

[dominique]

You've pitched a bitch?
So what does Bryan say?

[AffiliatedWeb]

Hey Everyone,

Operarocks and I have communicated via private messages. I have escalated this issue to our Customer Service Manager today. I just heard about this problem today. I will be on an airplane most of tomorrow, Monday, but I should be able to follow up Monday evening (European time). I am sure it has something to do with the multiple accounts, but I will do my best to straighten it out.

I am sorry for the delay from the Customer Service Department. I have talked with the Customer Service Manager and she is investigating the representatives that handled the matter.

Giga 2, I looked at the winneronline posting. If you are Marcelos, we resolved that issue with Casinomeister already. The resolution is in the winneronline posting. If you are Dadoni, the last we had spoke I had recommended you pitch a bitch with Casinomeister who had the data about your case to make a decision (also in the thread). When I contacted him about it, he said he knew your username but had not heard from you. The ball is in your court. If you are neither of those individuals, I would be happy to research your problem. Please private message me with your account username or the email address on your account so I can find your information in our system.

Best Regards,
Jennifer Joyce
VP of Marketing
Affiliated Web Attractions
www.everestpoker.com
www.everestcasino.com
www.casinolux.com
www.imperialcasino.com

[jetset]

Good to see you involved with this one Jennifer, and I hope that if these allegations are true your colleague in Customer Service will be kicking ass on those members of staff who ignored this player - that's a cardinal sin when a casino has a legitimately aggrieved player.

If the player's allegations are correct here, it seems to me that you guys need to take a very careful look at your T&Cs regarding this question of what constitutes multiple accounts.

This player is tenacious (as he or she should be under the circumstances) and this is clearly not going to go away without management attention.