Grand Virtual complaint

[giga2]

Jennifer, I am not Marcelos nor Dadoni. My user is Kashmir at the winneronline forum link I gave

I wish I was Marcelos who got the money from you after he complained enough.

You haven't paid him and did not want to pay him but he complained everywhere and probably much better than me and got paid.


Please stop with the excuses and pay my winnings.
I did pitch a bitch and it was long ago, around half a year ago and I haven't got any reply . I don't think the casinomeister agreed with you as you say.

Maybe he agreed on Marcelos case because you paid him

Please pay me, at the beginning no one believed me and hopefully this time I am going to get my winnings.

Tell me if not what did I do wrong if you decide to insist not to pay your online casino blackjack winner

[Casinomeister]

Welcome to the forum, operarocks,

But in doing, please let me remind you of the forum rules:


1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts...do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law.

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showgroups.php

2.3 - Ensure your complaint is free from offensive or abusive language, and that the complaint is tactful and truthful. Making false claims are grounds for banishment or drawn and quartering.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/forum_rules.php

I don't mean to come across as a dickhead, but you've got to keep your language in check. I've modified the title to reflect that this is a complaint and that we're not dealing with thieves. Making derogatory statements ain't the way to go in this situation.

One of the main functions of this forum is to present player issues and to have these resolved. This can only be done if we remain cool, calm, and collected. Thanks for your understanding.

In the meantime, I'm checking into the issues that have been presented here - to include giga2's.

[operarocks]

Welcome to the forum, operarocks,

But in doing, please let me remind you of the forum rules:


1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts...do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law.

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showgroups.php

2.3 - Ensure your complaint is free from offensive or abusive language, and that the complaint is tactful and truthful. Making false claims are grounds for banishment or drawn and quartering.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/forum_rules.php

I don't mean to come across as a dickhead, but you've got to keep your language in check. I've modified the title to reflect that this is a complaint and that we're not dealing with thieves. Making derogatory statements ain't the way to go in this situation.

One of the main functions of this forum is to present player issues and to have these resolved. This can only be done if we remain cool, calm, and collected. Thanks for your understanding.

In the meantime, I'm checking into the issues that have been presented here - to include giga2's.

Well, I apologize in advance if the situation is actually resolved and they pay me, I'm just extremely frustrated after having dealt with customer service for over a month and being ignored and whatnot as detailed above. Hopefully Jennifer gets them to pay me.

[operarocks]

So, GV owed me a total of $2312 between the six sites. The GV rep Jennifer managed to convince them to pay my winnings on the first site I played on as well as refund my deposits at all other casinos for a total of $1,300. I was paid this morning.

I'm still short $1,000 in my opinion on one hand, on the other hand, I have $1,300 that I didn't think I'd see which I'm grateful to have.

Overall, while I very much appreciate Jennifer's assistance (she was extremely polite, professional, courteous, and prompt with updates) and the fact that I managed to get some of what was owed to me, I can't say I recommend this casinos, they have some pretty big issues I think they need to address. Consider the following as constructive criticism and not sour grapes for not recieving a full payment:

1.) There is a complete disconnect between the players and management.

The only way to contact GV is through a web-form off a casino webpage. There is no contact phone number. The average response time I experienced was more than a day, and I sent by my count three emails that were simply never responded too. Jennifer stated that this was due to the one rep helping me being new. Regardless, a player should never be in this situation. In several of my emails I requested a phone number or an email from a manager. I was not provided any management information with which to discuss my situation. While I can understand not listing a phone number intitially (I used to work in a call center, its expensive, the typical call cost us $8 in total costs from facilities to labor) there certainly needs to be a more sophisiticated way to resolve advanced or escalated situations as this one clearly was. Not being able to talk to a manager is pretty much unacceptable.

2.) Terms and Conditions:

They could do far more to emphasize that having GV accounts from different web sits will cause you to get locked. I always read the T&C, it takes about five clicks and digging to find that information. It could easily be stated in the software, or, in the case of multiple signups, it shouldn't be that difficult to implement something that bans a user based on email or physical address. Operators of Microgaming and Playtech sites have no problems doing this, so I can't see why Grand Virtual should be different. Additionally, if they are that concerned with bonus abusers, they could simply have you email customer service for bonuses which would provide additional screening.

3.) OGA and Kahnawake are not responsive. I had to file three different complaints with OGA and two with Kahnawake before I got a response (never got an OGA response, only Kahnawake after the third complaint a month later).

4.) Customer unfriendly policies.

Even if you do decide someone is a bonus abuser as opposed to having a misunderstanding about the T&C (as I did). Clearly the more friendly customer policy is to refund that person's deposits rather than simply locking up the account and not returning either the deposit or any winnings. Who knows if I even would have been this persistent in being paid if they had at least been reasonable enough to return my deposits at the onset of this fiasco.

Again, thanks to Jennifer for her help in reopening my first account, although I think it's a shame that I doubt I will continue to play here.

[caruso]

Exactly what was the reason given for payment but on only ONE account? You've hinted at the reason in your point 2, but I'd like a clarification.

[AffiliatedWeb]

Hi Caruso,

The reason is that our Terms and Conditions on all casinos powered by Grand Virtual technology state that a player may only get 1 sign-up bonus across all brands powered by Grand Virtual software. He opened 6 accounts within 2 hours and 5 minutes on the same day.

So, our Operations Department's position was that OperaRocks should get his winnings on the very first account. However, any winnings or losses on other accounts were invalid because they were achieved using bonus dollars to which he was not entitled. He had one other account with winnings and two others with losses. We refunded his deposits on all accounts including the ones where he lost (and we made money) because fair is fair. If he doesn't get the winning on the second account, then we won't take his losses either.

I deeply apologize for the time this took and we are working with our Customer Service Department on speed. I am also planning to move the terms up closer to the home page so they are easier to find. OperaRocks had mentioned putting a notice on the buy chips screen which I think is a good idea. We are currently working on phone customer service.

If anyone has any questions or suggestions, please feel free to post or private message me.

For those of you who did not see Casinomeister's posting on the Nazila postings in this thread, please see the thread below. He is a known fraudulent player with other casinos as well. The Nazila issues is resolved.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ghlight=nazila

[jetset]

Kudos for an objective assessment of deficiencies at Grand Virtual casinos, OperaRocks.

The sad truth is that this sort of thing has been highlighted again and again in other disputes and should be part of Casino Management 101, yet things like having user-friendly escalation facilities, good comms, upfront T&Cs etc continue to be neglected by casinos.

This should be useful information that Jennifer can take to management at the casinos concerned in order to push through the improvements that she has outlined.

[vedat]

hello i think its wrong to avoid casinos rules(even they can be annoying ) and do what ever you like with bonus and cry like a baby when you dont get paid i have lost more than 2000$ by not reading rules welll and i had no problem i really got annoyed but it was their rules and i didnt read them well like playing video poker for a slots bonus or playing blackjack-roulette-puntobanco even its a crime to play for some casinos . and and i didnt picthed a bith becouse i was wrong .

[operarocks]

Caruso - The terms that are actually applicable to me not getting paid at all casinos are this:

"Bonuses (whether one-time, sign-up, special promotion or recurring monthly use) are limited to one per combination of: a person, family, household, geographic address, mailing address, email address, credit card number and shared computer environment (such as a library or workplace). This limitation applies across all casinos operating GrandVirtual technology. If a casino operating GrandVirtual technology is running a promotion that is similar in kind, an individual person cannot receive the same promotion from both casinos. This includes, but is not limited to, new user promotions."

Even though no one from their support team at any point quoted this part of the terms. The rep who was "helping" me kept repeating this part when they bothered to respond:

"Abuse. Players must play as individuals and in the spirit of enjoying the Casino real-money Games as fun and exciting entertainment. Players may not abuse the promotions by creating multiple Player accounts or acting as part of a syndicate to defraud the Casino, nor may they cash out winnings without participating in legitimate real-money play and satisfying bonus requirements. Any Player deemed by Casino Management to be attempting to abuse the promotions will be barred from using the Casino for life. Decisions regarding abuse will be made solely by Casino Management and all decisions are final. Casino Management may and will bar Players without indicating the reason."

Which was not applicable as I had made only one account at each of the sister casinos, I'm not part of a syndicate, and I fully wagered (and more) through all of my bonuses priot to cashing out.

Vedat - I am not "crying like a baby" because I didn't get paid the full amount owed. I understand their reasons for paying out only $1,300. My problem is as I've outlined, the disconnect from management, *my* opinion that the terms and conditions are not very accessible to your typical casual gambler, and the way in which they handled the situation. I probably would not have even complained had they simply refunded ALL my deposits with a short explanatory email and disallowed me to play further or, processed my cashouts on one site and refunded my deposits on the others (which they ultimately did) as a reasonable compromise up front.

Clearly, all of this is subjective, but I wanted to share my experiences since it took nearly two months to sort all of this out. Perhaps you think I'm an idiot for not going through the T&C with a finetooth comb (it takes five clicks to get there, and the layout of their terms are not exactly user-friendly). I like to think I'm relatively tech-savvy, and I thought my play was absolutely on the up and up after reviewing their terms. Regardless of whether you think I'm partially culpable (I'd agree) for them withholding some amount of my money, I think most people would agree that simply refusing to pay any amount back to me and being unable to contact management in any way shape or form through the company itself rather than having to go through third-party casino advocacy sites such as Casinomesiter (including my deposits on two sites where I had made NO wagers) is extremely poor. I've had a few other cashout situations where there was some sort of discrepency, and generally I've been able to have them resolved without having to call up friends who play casinos, register accounts, complain on forums and wait for a response. Can you imagine if any other business ran that way?

The money is not nearly as an important of an issue as how I was treated by the casino, it's staff, Kahnawake, and OGA who were non-responsive. If I didn't have a good friend who plays often and lurks around these boards I would have had absolutely no recourse against the fact that the representative (who is apparently on some sort of corrective action due to this situation) simply at some point decided to stop responding to my emails.

The Nazila issue is completely separate from mine. He is an apparent fraudster, I am not. I registered with the exact same information at all sites, an obvious indication that I thought everything was fine.

While I can't say I recommend GV due to my personal negative experiences, I'm certainly heartened by the fact that Jennifer (Affiliate Web) was extremely polite, helpful and courteous in resolving the matter, and as you can see from her responses, seems attentive and interested in making changes to prevent future situations such as mine from happening. The fact that she acknowledged that the situation was problematic, that I was not treated fairly, and that we came to a reasonable compromise certainly speaks to the credit of the company. Hopefully, their general customer service improves to the point where Jennifer's professionalism is mirrored by all of their representatives in which case I may go back to GV to play casually.

[AussieDave]

IMO yet another example of why casinos should kick bonuses to the curb. I'd be real interested in knowing the overall percentage ratio of bonus PAB's to non bonus related PAB claims.