32Red disgrace - TotalGambler ad

[sirius]

I don't really know where to start with this but this is a big mistake by 32Red. It's probably easiest if I copy email correspondence I posted on my site many days ago now. I have waited close to a week for a response which hasn't been forthcoming. This is from a casino that is currently recommended and advertised on my site and is the third highest rated casino in the directory by reviews from players. I honestly don't know what to about them now other than dump them.

I'm awaiting a reply but this is explains it so far (best to read from the bottom up):

Hi,

The reason the roulette article was a bad idea was
that it was totally misleading. I'm still not sure
what to do about it.

The front cover of the publication has the headline
"ROULETTE - Discover the smarter way to play". Anyone
gambling should know roulette is just luck and not
think there is a way to guarantee you win in roulette
as the article suggests. This will probably create
problem gamblers, as one of the major reasons for
compulsive gambling is false beliefs about the games.
There is no smarter way to play and you need no
understanding of the game to have a better chance of
winning than anyone else.

The first part of the article reads: "The wheel deal :
Reckon you can't consistently make money on roulette?
You're wrong. The odds can be tough, but with
discipline and a thorough understanding of the game,
you could at least win more than you lose."

There is another part saying 'Knowledge is power' and
states: "You must know the game. Most players have no
interest in where the numbers are on the wheel. They
should! Number position varies on the 37- and 38-
number wheels. You need to know that on the single-0
wheel, 27 is red and lies between 6 black and 13
black. On the 00 wheel, it lies next to 00. This
know-how can mean the difference between the
occasional win (the amateur) and the steady winners
(the pros)."

This information has no bearing on whether you win or
not in roulette!

There is another part that almost admits it's rubbish:
"When I'm betting against the wheel, if I wait for,
say, six red numbers in a row, then I'm closer to
hitting a black than if I bet on black striaght away,
although there's no mathematical logic in this."

The tips titled "Do and Dont's" are total rubbish too.

--- Kate Blackmore <kate@32red.com> wrote:

>
> We run a number of print ads in several
> gambling-theme publications. This one is part of
> series Total Gambler are running in association with
> 32Red, providing hints and tips for certain casino
> games. It was a joint idea from the Total Gambler
> editorial staff and our Marketing Department. We
> would hope to offer other adverts and articles in
> similar publications in the future.
>
> I am sorry to hear you were unhappy with the article
> - could you please let me know what you found
> disappointing?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kate Blackmore
> Marketing Executive
> 32Red Casino | 32Red Poker
> Casinomeister Best Casino 2003 & 2004
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hi,
>
> I noticed an advert/article by 32RED in Total
> Gambler magazine which was about roulette and how to
> win.
> Who's idea was this advert? I asked before because I
> wasn't very happy with it but you didn't respond.
> Are you going to do these type of adverts again?
>
>

[johnsteed]

To Sirius,

I visited your site yesterday, and I must say, while another member wasn't so impressed (although I DO value unsaid players opinion ), I thought that it's pretty good. I generally respect what you have to say.

I also noticed the MONSTER add by 32Red at your website. I also noticed the other thread where you recently brought-up Casinomeister's Accredited Casinos list as being too big (or too long, or whatever you said). Calling-out 2 of the most respected online casino icons (who are more substance than style in their respective fields) is NOT the way to catapult your website, if that is indeed what you're trying to do. Distancing yourself from an advertiser that's doing something unethical is great, but promoting it at another website seems a bit tacky. Don't pretty much ALL online casinos try to sell the image of the player ALWAYS winning?

IMPO, MANY advertisements are unethical and lousy (BoDog has THE worst in my mind). That being the case, you might as well call-out EVERY online casinos marketing team.

Then again, what will the marketing team start coming up for sales pitches?

Example:

Come to CasinoCasinoCasino.com!!

Guaranteed only 5% in losses over the long-run!!!

Start losing today!!!!!!!!

[sirius]

Total Gambler Magazine has a circulation of around half a million making it the largest gambling magazine in UK. It comes as a free supplement with various men's and lifestyle magazines from the same publisher (Dennis Publishing - which also publishes another gambling magazine called Inside Edge). A lot of the readers wouldn't expect a gambling magazine to be inside the magazine they bought but that is not the point (they can always throw it away as I know one person did who has lost a lot in the past gambling and wasn't pleased to see the magazine inside).

The 32red roulette article was not their first. The previous month it was about blackjack which was good enough (although there was an error in the cut-out-and-keep basic strategy chart which said to stand on 16 against a 9 or above!). The roulette article, however, was nothing short of a disgrace. It was the cover story of the whole magazine. They employed a sham author to help write the 3 page article and plug both 32Red and his stupid book (Roulette- Playing to Win by Brett Morton). 32Red is mentioned in the article a few times by the author and the 32Red name is on each of the pages at the top and bottom (as would be expected for an advertising feature). The fourth page next to the third page of the article is a conventional 32red roulette ad asking 'What's your lucky number?'

It was the cover story for Total Gambler Magazine which showed a picture of a roulette wheel and the phrase 'Roulette- Discover a smarter way to play'. The magazine itself has the slogan "Read it and win!" which probably encouraged more people to read the cover article than normal. I can't repeat enough how much of a sham the article is. I'm quite sure the author even knows it's total rubbish but wants to sell his book. He mentions certain mathematical facts in the article which shows he knows enough to not believe what he is writing.

The article starts with: "When I wrote my book, Roulette - Playing to Win, people asked whether I would be banned from casinos, as I was explaining how to beat them. I could see what they meant. If everyone started winning, then bailiffs rather than moguls would rule the Las Vegas Strip. But life isn't like that. Of the many people who have spoken to me or listened to me talking about Playing to Win, most will prefer to have fun at the roulette table and will lack the iron discipline needed to play well.."

The supposed tips in Dos and Don'ts are equally laughable. It mentions that there are more red odd numbers than black and more black even numbers than red and 'knowing this can influence your bets'. Another one is 'win more when you're winning than you lose when you're losing'. Towards the end of the article he says: "I guarantee that taking time to learn to play properly will bring rewards."

Anyone who knows about the game can see how stupid this article is. It is also very dangerous.

[sirius]

Yes I have the ads for 32red on my site but they will be taken down quite soon as I can't see what they can do to resolve it. I have been waiting a week for them to respond to what I wrote back to them although I didn't really expect them to do much about it now.

32Red is one of the top rated sites and is almost 8 out of 10 after 19 reviews by forum members. Their previous article on blackjack was good enough (apart from the mistake in the strategy table) and they told players they can expect around 99% return in the long which is probably less than they would actually get.

Gambling isn't about winning all the time it's about gambling. Your idea of losing in the long run isn't quite correct either as most players wouldn't get into the 'long run'. The roulette article was completely wrong and suggested there is a way with practise to beat the table. All players should know they can't guarantee to beat the game but they have a good chance of winning in the medium term. Even with roulette they would need many thousands of spins for the house edge to be significant (i.e. the casino could still be losing after many thousands of spins). The casino needs a large volume of players so that the actual return is guaranteed to be close enough to the theoretical return to ensure the casino a profit. Casinos don't make money as easily as you think. Some players will get lucky and even things out even though the vast majority lose.

The only reason most gamblers lose is that they aim to win too many times before they quit and only the lucky few manage to win. If the games paid out 100% it would still not make much difference to a player in the short term as it is still only 50% chance of doubling the bankroll and 10% chance of turning $100 into $1000. The few that are lucky cashout as winners. Casinos have players because it isn't difficult for players to win a modest amount and some are lucky and win a lot. When I mentioned erroneous beliefs by compulsive gamblers, non-gamblers also have erroneous beliefs which some say is a good thing. Namely, they think they can't win gambling.

[johnsteed]

sirius

Casinos don't make money as easily as you think. Some players will get lucky and even things out even though the vast majority lose.

I've never been under the assumption that casinos make money easily, though I do agree though that the vast majority of players lose. I also doubt that casinos come ahead in profit EACH month (minus those other casinos that stall and don't pay their winners).

I also think that a casino like 32Red, which is "likely" considered a big-player amongst all the online casinos out there, may not be as big as people think. I would assume that casinos such as 888.com, InterCasino, the Gaming Club (or better yet, other MG and RTG affiliates), and a host of others are likely much larger operations. I think out of all the casinos that I've deposited at (roughly 200), or that I've been reading about over the years, I find that 32Red have very high "ethical" standards WHILE trying to turn a profit. That's why casino's are in business, not to come up even, but to turn a profit.

If you're going to pull your 32Red banner based on principal (because they are a "disgrace"), you might as well pull the majority (if not ALL) of your advertisement banners at the same time.

Footnote: My apologies concerning my comments towards BoDog's advertisement campaign. I don't like it, it's too "rah-rah" or "sexed-up" in my opinion. "Lousy" (in taste) yes, "unethical" no. As far as I know, it's a great RTG casino that pays it's players.

[casinoplayer658]

sirius

Casinos don't make money as easily as you think. Some players will get lucky and even things out even though the vast majority lose.

I've never been under the assumption that casinos make money easily, though I do agree though that the vast majority of players lose. I also doubt that casinos come ahead in profit EACH month (minus those other casinos that stall and don't pay their winners).

I also think that a casino like 32Red, which is "likely" considered a big-player amongst all the online casinos out there, may not be as big as people think. I would assume that casinos such as 888.com, InterCasino, the Gaming Club (or better yet, other MG and RTG affiliates), and a host of others are likely much larger operations. I think out of all the casinos that I've deposited at (roughly 200), or that I've been reading about over the years, I find that 32Red have very high "ethical" standards WHILE trying to turn a profit. That's why casino's are in business, not to come up even, but to turn a profit.

If you're going to pull your 32Red banner based on principal (because they are a "disgrace"), you might as well pull the majority (if not ALL) of your advertisement banners at the same time.

Footnote: My apologies concerning my comments towards BoDog's advertisement campaign. I don't like it, it's too "rah-rah" or "sexed-up" in my opinion. "Lousy" (in taste) yes, "unethical" no. As far as I know, it's a great RTG casino that pays it's players.

If you don't think it is easy for an online casino to make money you are an idiot.

[johnsteed]

casinoplayer658

If you don't think it is easy for an online casino to make money you are an idiot.

Well then, I guess I'm an "idiot".

To be clear, I do think that the BIG players (a small percentage of casinos) make EASY money. But, I don't think a person puts some money together, opens up a casino, sits back, and makes "easy" money. No. And the casinos at the top (the BIG players) HAD and HAVE to work relatively hard to have earned and to keep the EASY money coming in. I would also assume that with more clients, a good company that will stand the test-of-time will have to spread the wealth around a bit more. By this, that means expanding, taking some risks, more advertisement, more volume would mean more people working for the company/casino/affiliate. I'm sure the owners at the top of the online casino community are filthy-stinking rich, but it didn't just come to them either (IOW you have to spend money to make money IF you want to maintain a successful business in the long-run).

IF you think that a casino ownership simply makes money easily, and loads of money bags are dumped off by Brinks employees daily to their primary turn-key operations, then I guess by your definition or take on the English Language, you're a "GENIUS".

[jetset]

Sensible post, John Steed.

I've worked (and I mean really worked!!) in online casino management and there's no easy money. There is competition, risk, dishonesty and plain human error and foible that make necessary a constant vigilance and focus if the operation is to run properly. Almost every day brings a new set of hassles....just like any business.

[spearmaster]

While I obviously agree that there is no system that can beat roulette, and having read the snippets posted here I think that they defy common sense, I wouldn't go so far as to place the blame on 32Red.

It appears to me that this article is probably by the guy who wrote the book on beating roulette... and somehow I don't think that 32Red has any control over the editorial content of the magazine.

Knowing Ed, I'd imagine he'd be furious if he thought that 32Red was saying that roulette can be beaten. He has never been anything less than forthcoming and straightforward and I highly doubt his operation would stoop so low as to say roulette systems work.

[rudepete]

(although I DO value unsaid players opinion ),
I got a chuckle from that one. OH NO------------------ They know I am the unsaid player. yikes stripes
I always wanted to be an unknown comic, does it show???????