Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[Westland Bowl]

Cipher responds! Take a look at what is going on over at BlackjackInfo.com

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...ed=1#post27514

[Pinababy69]

I was just looking over his site, and noticed how he tells people to "test drive" his program at Bodog. I don't know how Bodog feels about that, but if this story pans out to be true, they may want to rethink being associated in any way with Cipher or his website or his "program".

WB, I just read Cipher's response at Blackjackinfo.com. I see that he did not give any sort of reply or denial of what you've stated. He did allude to the fact that you and your brother and/or other family have threatened him with the Secret Service, FBI, etc. Is there any truth to that? And please be honest. If you were fed up and trying to intimidate him (even if they were empty threats), I can understand. But he's implying that there were more emails than what you've posted, and some that maybe don't show you acting in a professional vein. I'm not condemning you, but it's better you give us ALL the facts upfront, rather than letting them trickle out. That only makes you look dishonest, or like you're hiding something. If you got frustrated and made some "stupid" statements, totally understandable.

And Cipher, I have one question for you. Did you accept 20K from this man, and pay him only $2,400 so far? Forget the 15%, do you still have $17,600 of his money? Yes or no.

[Westland Bowl]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

WB, I just read Cipher's response at Blackjackinfo.com. I see that he did not give any sort of reply or denial of what you've stated. He did allude to the fact that you and your brother and/or other family have threatened him with the Secret Service, FBI, etc. Is there any truth to that? And please be honest. If you were fed up and trying to intimidate him (even if they were empty threats), I can understand. But he's implying that there were more emails than what you've posted, and some that maybe don't show you acting in a professional vein. I'm not condemning you, but it's better you give us ALL the facts upfront, rather than letting them trickle out. That only makes you look dishonest, or like you're hiding something. If you got frustrated and made some "stupid" statements, totally understandable.

My brother has sent emails to Cipher on his own so I did not quote them in the Wiz of BJ posting but I did say that he emailed Cipher. He did not threatened to sic our Secret Service relatives on him but wanted Cipher to know we have some relatives with some expertise in getting information. But my brother does have his own way of writing...much like he liked to tease cats and dogs to snarls and hisses.

I also didn't include Cipher's emails to my brother, saying that he sent to the local US District Attorney our emails (1 of his and two of mine- which were the last two listed in the Wiz of BJ post). That didn't happen- we've gotten NO calls from any district attorney. He said that the poster bilgplaya was in a lot of legal hot water. That wasn't true- Cipher's done nothing to take bilgplaya's friends to court. Soooo...yeah, there were some behind the scenes emails between my brother and Cipher but I wanted to keep the focus on the facts between me and Cipher.

[Pinababy69]

Fair enough WB, thanks for the clarification. These things can be hard to follow. And no, you can't control your brother. But I would try and tell him to remain professional and not to lose his cool. From what you've posted, you seem to have done a good job of that so far.

It looks like Brutus has at least gotten him to admit publicly that he did indeed take your money, and at a promised 15% rate of return. He says that the agreement however had nothing to do with blackjack. I'm not entirely sure that I care what it had to do with (unless it was being used to scam other people with your knowledge). Whether it was being used to play BJ or a game of tiddlywinks in a back alley, he took your money, and obviously still has it.

I guess we'll have to wait two days, and then all will be revealed (Cipher's version).

[unicorn40]

I really do hope you get back the $17,600 at least, though it looks like Cipher doesn't have it to cough up. I'm really sorry this happened to you and it just goes to show how careful you need to be esp. online. He sure did use one excuse after another...or i guess the same one over sort of. I am very sorry to hear about your Mother also...

[soflat]

Now I'm confused. What was Cipher supposed to do with the $20,000? Play blackjack?

On the other forum, it seems like you are still under the belief that the system works. Do you?

[chuchu59]

At the other forum Cipher seems to have been so rattled that he has omitted his famous quote. Well, he visited this site just yesterday but has chosen not to respond. I hope he does so that we can get the whole picture otherwise silence will be all the more deafening.

[Swede]

Without taking sides, and I choose to do so for reasons that are my own, I'd like to ask a few general q's:

1) If there is a documented(email exchange) agreement between A and B stating the expected profit will be X and B(seller) confirms that, how does A not have a legitimate claim?

2) If it is decided that A has a legitimate claim, can B's online and personal asetts be frozen or even confiscated awaiting investigation?

3) What is with the sum of $5000? Is that the maximum amount that can be disputed in a court of law?

Just asking this out of curiosity and comparing outlandish legislations to ours.

GL to those who have been wronged is this matter.

Swede

[Random#rs]

Oh there's no substance to what he's saying so far at all. All it is, is a steaming heap of parrot droppings; otherwise known as 'mud slinging'. He is using anything other than the direct matter with WB to justify his attitude, his transparent outrage, ... ie. his brother, or aka:Richard, or his mother didn't know etc. all an excuse for his actions. What a bunch of baloney!

Some Casinos are going to be interested in this. Bodog? you bet. And more. Come over here Cipher, where your audience is maximized, especially with Casinos.

Off topic a little: my brother is a bulldog too, and he'll do things I can't control when it comes to vindication for family. I swear I have to use a whip to control him.

[suzecat]

Catman.....true to my nature, I have been unsympathetic/harsh with you.....for which I apologize. Your story reminded me of many times I was suckered by similar cons and how I had kept hoping that it was going to work out. Pina hit the nail on the head with her post above. Once you let the reality of the situation sink in it is difficult to control your anger, first at the con and then at yourself. When it happened to me, I felt like a real putz. It has not happened in a long time and will not happen again. Of course the payoff is this skeptical, unsympathetic harsh nature. You will do better; enjoy the hell out of your kitties and listen to the small voice of your Mother telling you to smile and be happy. Karma is alive and well and a powerful thing that levels all uneven fields. Maybe it will help to know that you have a lot of people whose positive thoughts encircle and protect you.