How about these ideas for some new Rules?

[Diane]

You can't post a complaint about an accredited site until you have:

Discussed problem with Live Chat support at site
Sent an email to support regarding the problem
Sent a PM to the Casino Rep through CM
Waited a week to see how the first 3 steps above worked out
Filed a PAB with Max
Waited at least a week (or more if on Vacation) for Max to respond and investigate it on your behalf
Received Max's response

THEN and only THEN can you gripe about some problem at a site? We are a world of instant gratification demanding consumers. We need to learn patience. We need to remember that the whole world of online gaming has been tossed on its ear the last few months. We need to be glad we can still play *somewhere*.


Second New Rule if Diane were Queen for a Day:

NO Complaints allowed about a Rogue site. Its Buyer Beware -- that's what Rogue means! Don't clog up this site with complaints about places that are already known to be shoddy. You don't have to tell us that you got burned by such and such a site -- we know, we KNOW! That's why they are ROGUE!


Third New Rule in Diane's Dynasty:

You cannot join the forum and file complaints for your first ____ amount of months. It's a privilege to be a member here, you need time to learn the ropes, the protocols and expectations, and time to research the information that is available to you already before you post complaints.

Don't get me wrong - requests for information from the more learned members of this group are good and welcome requests. We love to help (at least most of us do...) Genuine desire to learn more about online gaming we will help all day long. We want new blood and new participating members of the group who can engage in conversations without resorting to biting sarcasm or personal attacks.

That's it.

Diane

[MommyMachine]

That all sounds good and stuff, however; for most players they find this site when having issues regarding an online casino, rogue or not. Now, I don't think it would be fair to not be able to post a complaint, because it could save ppl from having the same issue.

[chuchu59]

You can't post a complaint about an accredited site until you have:

Discussed problem with Live Chat support at site
Sent an email to support regarding the problem
Sent a PM to the Casino Rep through CM
Waited a week to see how the first 3 steps above worked out
Filed a PAB with Max
Waited at least a week (or more if on Vacation) for Max to respond and investigate it on your behalf
Received Max's response

THEN and only THEN can you gripe about some problem at a site? We are a world of instant gratification demanding consumers. We need to learn patience. We need to remember that the whole world of online gaming has been tossed on its ear the last few months. We need to be glad we can still play *somewhere*.


Second New Rule if Diane were Queen for a Day:

NO Complaints allowed about a Rogue site. Its Buyer Beware -- that's what Rogue means! Don't clog up this site with complaints about places that are already known to be shoddy. You don't have to tell us that you got burned by such and such a site -- we know, we KNOW! That's why they are ROGUE!


Third New Rule in Diane's Dynasty:

You cannot join the forum and file complaints for your first ____ amount of months. It's a privilege to be a member here, you need time to learn the ropes, the protocols and expectations, and time to research the information that is available to you already before you post complaints.

Don't get me wrong - requests for information from the more learned members of this group are good and welcome requests. We love to help (at least most of us do...) Genuine desire to learn more about online gaming we will help all day long. We want new blood and new participating members of the group who can engage in conversations without resorting to biting sarcasm or personal attacks.

That's it.

Diane

I think the 3rd rule is perfectly okay but I have reservations on the other 2. What constitutes a complaint or for that matter an opinion or experience? I could dislike say Casino A for receiving shoddy treatment from them but dont want to go thru the steps eg live chat or pming the rep before posting. Accredited casinos could easily go down the drain and there have been instances of their removal from the accredited list. If they are not on their best behaviour we need to know because a higher standard is expected from them. As for the rogue casinos, we need to post bad experiences to constantly remind ourselves not to fall into their traps. Actually, I think we should post more on rogue casinos, well not exactly singing their praises but knowing more on their promos and what makes them appeal to players , new and old. We cant just mention they are rogue everytime without explaining in depth what misdeeds they will commit. Say they have great promos and an extra free chip if you lose but they will pay you only after 1 month (giving you plenty of time to reverse and lose) and if you have little self-control they use tricks to tempt you to deposit. The more we post about the rogues, the smarter people will get instead of just calling them rogue and telling people not to patronise them.

[Papa-ya]

People come here not just to learn or be fed hand picked information, but to engage in the ups and downs of the casino industry mostly, as viewed by other players.

I agree if there is a serious problem, then the avenues should be utilized first and proper discretion should be used. However for general good, bad and ugly discusions and experiences is good to keep players in perspective that the online casino game is not easy money all the time.

Rogue casino, they should be discussed, otherwise many players will think, well, don't hear nothing bad anymore, so they must be okay. Discussion/complaints of rogue casinos is what reinforces why they are still on the rogue list. Chastizing a player for playing them is uncalled for, as it is their choice and their lesson to learn.

Then there are the casinos no one ever talks about, you may know of a few, a player then is left wondering should I or shouldn't I?

Just because some people go off the deep end, this is no reason to limit debates or discussions, guidlines are already set and there will always be times when the boundaries are crossed, it's just human nature. If someone is having a bad day, doesn't bother me, I just go to another topic until they have cooled off. Even those who do get all balistic still have experiences to share good or bad and I personally would like to hear it. If it gets off track I just skip some posts to get back to the topic.

There already are to many good members here that are now absent. I have read this forum for some time before joining and there are a lot of posters I sorely miss reading their thoughts, views and experiences.

[Nifty29]

#1 is a good idea. Accreditation should count for something and these operators should be afforded some respect by allowing them to resolve issues without having some twit go off the deep end.

If they ignore you or refuse to offer a resolution, then all bets are off. Too many members, including many newbies, post here slagging off this casino and that casino for mostly frivolous or fraudulent complaints. Yes, there are genuine cases, but most of these will do the right thing and contact the rep or submit a PAB. The MO of the scammers and cheats is to make lots of noise and drum up sympathy by telling outright lies and/or half the story.

#2 I can take or leave. Talking about rogues has benefits, but I think Diane was talking about players who should know better (IMO)

$3 Good point. I would make it maybe 7-14 days, or alternatively make a 48 hour probation period after signup where new members cannot post. It might prevent some going off their heads in anger.

[Mousey]

From the FAQ ...

2. Posting Complaints
2.1 - Complaints against casinos or pokerrooms will only be posted in the "Online Casino and Poker Complaints" forum.

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.

At one time, newbies were not allowed posting privileges to the Complaints sections. Not sure if this is still the case or not.

[Cleveland]

I vote Diane queen for a day!

[4 of a kind]

Internet forums are opened to all walks of life from all over the world. If someone wanted to start a private forum then they should list all the criteria required before letting a member join. {Of course there needs to be obvious basic rules in place for the obvious reasons.}

Most forums usually serve more then one purpose. Most here forget that it’s also a business. Many need to realize that running a successful forum is neither simple nor cheap. I’ve heard costs that made my head spin. Good site protection alone, especially when dealing with gambling issues like Casinomeister does, (which in many cases tends to lead towards the dark side, both with members and casino sites) could be costly.

Veteran members here that wish they could change the forum rules in order to customize the site to fit their personal criteria for posting seem to forget why forums like this even exist.

I know Bryan is a great cool level headed guy, but let’s not forget he took a niche the distance with a creative vision, and not with the intentions of being a charity.

New members that sign up usually didn’t even know the place existed till they had a problem. Many are fools, scammers, spammers, and prove to be amateurs thinking their slick, shocked by the slicker professionals they run into here. They usually get weeded out rather fast not to be heard from anymore. Many that join are amateur online gambler newbees that might have gotten screwed. They utilize the services and eventually learn a lot about online casino workings and where to play, and hopefully registers to an accredited casino via a CM link. This site still exists because of constant new visitors and members. Limiting or making requirements would only weaken the new memberships defeating its purpose.

For members here that want to change the rules for their liking are truly overlooking the main objective for the sites existence in the first place.

In addition, I envy Bryan for his achievements with this site.

[LaHutti]

Internet forums are opened to all walks of life from all over the world. If someone wanted to start a private forum then they should list all the criteria required before letting a member join. {Of course there needs to be obvious basic rules in place for the obvious reasons.}

Most forums usually serve more then one purpose. Most here forget that it’s also a business. Many need to realize that running a successful forum is neither simple nor cheap. I’ve heard costs that made my head spin. Good site protection alone, especially when dealing with gambling issues like Casinomeister does, (which in many cases tends to lead towards the dark side, both with members and casino sites) could be costly.

Veteran members here that wish they could change the forum rules in order to customize the site to fit their personal criteria for posting seem to forget why forums like this even exist.

I know Bryan is a great cool level headed guy, but let’s not forget he took a niche the distance with a creative vision, and not with the intentions of being a charity.

New members that sign up usually didn’t even know the place existed till they had a problem. Many are fools, scammers, spammers, and prove to be amateurs thinking their slick, shocked by the slicker professionals they run into here. They usually get weeded out rather fast not to be heard from anymore. Many that join are amateur online gambler newbees that might have gotten screwed. They utilize the services and eventually learn a lot about online casino workings and where to play, and hopefully registers to an accredited casino via a CM link. This site still exists because of constant new visitors and members. Limiting or making requirements would only weaken the new memberships defeating its purpose.

For members here that want to change the rules for their liking are truly overlooking the main objective for the sites existence in the first place.

In addition, I envy Bryan for his achievements with this site.

[IanO]

Nice ideas.

I'm not sure if some of the people who come here have the patience for part one though. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen Max of another poster have to remind someone not to post while their PAB is in process. The idea is good, but I just see it adding to the list of things we have to remind people about...

Plus rules are like laws.. to really guarantee they are followed there needs to be a penalty for not doing so. Posting about your problem during a PAB can affect it, fine... but do you really want Max to say 'you only waited 5 days before complaining, so we wont help you yet' ?

As for part two... no complaints about rogues? One of Bryans best tips for identifing rogue casinos is to google the casino name pls keywords like scam, complaint, fraud etc. By discouraging posts about rogues there are less of these posts to find. Just something to consider.

As for part three, I agree with MommyMachine that many new posters come here BECAUSE of a problem of complaint. If they are restricted from getting help in any way then thats a little counter productive. Plus... if I'm totally honest... I like the occasional car-crash thread where a scammer comes in to whine and gets caught out by the many in-house detectives