Potential conflict-of-interest concerns - Apathy - Thoughts on Improving CM Forum

[JHV]

It's up to members to police one another when it comes to "hey, I think you're shilling" or man, I wish there were more members like me. Feel free to recruit all your player buddies and tear apart the RNG of whatever software provider. No one is going to say no to that. In fact that's what makes this board resilient and powerful. People read and listen to what is said here. This is your forum - it's your sounding board - this is a tool for you to use.

As most of us are aware, Rusty has decided to leave CM. His stated reason for doing so struck a chord with me as I was, myself, drifting away for those same reasons.

Due to a steady increase in shill like posts, unchecked disinformation and general apathy on the subject of fair gaming I will no longer be posting on these boards as I do not want to add legitimacy to these people by responding to them directly.

As Bryan states above, it is up to us to make this forum a powerful one. A forum that strikes fear into the hearts of unethical and shady operators, and a forum that heavily rewards ethical operators with our custom.

I cannot see how anyone can disagree with Rusty's words above. When Bryan graciously allowed me back to post, I was determined to be a positive force and contribute in a positive manner - to call out unethical operators, to compliment those operators conducting themselves in an ethical manner, and contribute across a range of sub-forums in assisting new players with advice, etc.

After one day of posting, I was disillusioned and disheartened. The 'apathy' Rusty referred to was everywhere. thelawnet made a great post bringing attention to a shocking piece of malpractice by a large operator, and almost no one seemed to care all that much. Not only that, but I was baited and attacked instead by posters making posts COVERED with affiliate links of the very online casinos who were being shown to be acting unethically. I steadfastly refused to rise to their baiting, hoping against hope their attacks would be moderated like mine would instantly be. The attacks were allowed. And, disillusioned, I drifted away...with no plans to return.

Although I don't have Rusty's posting history, widespread respect or established trust yet; his departure has sparked me into giving it one final shot. What I will say will be controversial. It will make some people angry. I may get banned for it. I hope I'm not, because I feel my arguments are valid and will be beneficial to the future of this forum.

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1. Conflict-of-Interest - whether genuine or perceived, this is a serious issue. A huge number of posters here are online casino affiliates. I understand business, and respect the right of anyone to conduct business on a forum, ESPECIALLY if they are providing valuable advice to inexperienced players. However, when that conflict-of-interest reaches the point where those affiliates stay silent on blatant misconduct by their listed casinos - ALL OF US should speak out and hold them to account.

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2. Moderation - there is a severe disparity between how some posters are moderated as opposed to others. I can provide evidence of unprovoked attacks made on me which have received no attention whatsoever - whilst I have been banned for breaching forum rules for RESPONDING to those attacks. Key word there: RESPONDING.

The moderation issue has to be addressed and/or be more transparent otherwise posters like myself, who genuinely have no agenda (note the complete lack of affiliate links) will be silenced directly via being baited and responding in breach of forum rules - or simply grow disillusioned with the apparent (perhaps incorrectly perceived) 'protection' some posters receive from mods whilst others step one inch over the line and get pinned immediately.

I can provide evidence of these examples, obviously. If anyone wishes me to, I will do so. But I believe this forums' posters to be mostly intelligent enough to realise what I'm saying is valid.

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3. Apathy - it's everywhere. Rusty knew it, I know it, you know it. But what I can't understand is why?

Is it merely that we're all only interested in our specific interests and don't feel comfortable commenting on games we don't play or online casinos we haven't played at? I know that's the case with me, for sure.

But I think we shouldn't have to make a PAB for this forum to unite when one of us posts a thread outlining unethical behaviour by an online casino.

When one of us does so, in my idealistic world, the whole forum will unite in outrage and demand action - even if it's just a whole group of us demanding the listed Casino Rep merely respond!

And, in my opinion, when a listed Casino Rep goes out of their way to NOT RESPOND to allegations, we should unite and beg Bryan and Max to delist them for that failure to respond. This isn't a courtroom, they should not have the right to "plead the 5th" or pull the "no comment" nonsense! Please trust me (as someone who's lost over half a million, a large % of which was lost to shady operators) when I say that these casinos won't give you the same courtesy in your position.

We need to get behind each other and our volume united will be heard. Otherwise, the very power that this forum has been and has the potential to be is intrinsically weakened. If Casino reps are allowed to insult our intelligence (as the InterCasino rep did responding to thelawnet) or simply ignore us (as the InterCasino rep did when I requested he comment on my allegations) - and we allow them to get away with it - what's the point of having them here if they're just going to lie to our faces, claim "misunderstandings", "technical errors", "cashout complications" and other nonsense as justification for ripping off innocent players - what's the point if they are here merely for this purpose?

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I hope enough objective players who are here primarily because they're interested in fair gaming agree with me. And I brace myself for the inevitable attacks from those who are here to make money and have no interest in fair gaming.

And I thank Bryan for allowing me this opportunity to post topics I have stayed silent about due to their hugely controversial nature.

[Casinomeister]

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I hope enough objective players who are here primarily because they're interested in fair gaming agree with me. And I brace myself for the inevitable attacks from those who are here to make money and have no interest in fair gaming...

And you're baiting the shills

JK

Seriously, one thing to keep in mind is that a majority of affiliates are players as well. It's hard to differentiate the two. Secondly, most affiliates don't make any money worth dealing with. Only a handful can make a living at it.

Thirdly, please don't assume silence is an act of ignoring a subject. There has been a number of times when the right person has not been contacted. Sometimes it takes my direct involvement to get something going. And I have been in and out during the past few months.

[Casinomeister]

Just a thought before my lunch break - what about modifying the sig rules? For instance disallowing URLs in sigs.

[Pinababy69]

Just a thought before my lunch break - what about modifying the sig rules? For instance disallowing URLs in sigs.

Big yes vote here Bryan...if we're voting that is.

[RobWin]

Just a thought before my lunch break - what about modifying the sig rules? For instance disallowing URLs in sigs.

That would most definitely knock a huge dent in the MOUNTAIN of Affiliate Cash that I am rolling in and making each month...lol

Shit, I quit my day job way back when I first became an affiliate because of all the excess cash I started making from the programs..
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[Pinababy69]

JHV, I swear to God you read my mind and posted my thoughts, probably alot better than I could have myself.

I do somewhat disagree with the part of your post re: moderation of this forum. Simmo and Webzcas are pretty busy with other stuff of late, and the task of full time moderation has pretty much fallen on Max and Bryan's shoulders. And when Bryan is off for whatever reason, the majority of the responsibility ends up being Max's. You have to remember (and I think Bryan already stated), that they don't have time to read every thread, and for sure, not every post. So they may not always be aware of each issue, or animosity between posters. The best suggestion is to use the report post function, or if it's something really pressing, even sending Max or Bryan a "short" PM can be helpful.

As to the rest of your post, and most especially the apathy part...I couldn't have said it better myself. I think I understand pretty well why Rusty left...I've been there. Him and I tossed that word (apathy) around quite a bit lately. It is very disheartening when you see shady goings on, and try to bring it to light....and are met with almost complete disinterest. You can't very well post to yourself, and if there's no feedback...where do you go from there?

Perhaps it's just a sign of the times? People have too many real life worries, and too much going on, to become overly involved in the world of online gaming. But, like you, I believe that anyone who plays online should take an interest in all aspects of the industry....educate themselves and get pissed off when they see some of the stuff that goes on.

Just in the last year alone, there have been so many issues with Progressive Jackpots at different casinos and spanning many different softwares. Jackpots just "gone", settlement payments instead of one lump sum payment, payments spread out over years, progressives won on free chips and supposedly paid out, but how do we know? That's just a short list. I just don't understand why people aren't foaming at the mouth at this kind of stuff.

I have no sympathy for shady affiliates who promote rogue casinos, absolutely none. But not all of the affiliates who frequent this site are "bad". There are some VERY good ones, who do their homework, and whose sites are much more than just banner farms. And I lay just as much blame for the existence and survival of rogue casinos, at the feet of players, as I do affiliates. People do not do their research before they play, and usually only end up here AFTER they've run into problems. How hard is it to do a Google search? And then there are the players who insist on giving their custom to the worst of the worst, even though they know full well the history of some of these places. Those are the ones who really get to me, and I have to bite my tongue and sit on my hands. But again, it comes back to the old "hey, I get paid, what do I care if Joe Blow doesn't"?

Players have all the power in the world, if they would only band together and demand fair treatment from some of these places. And refuse to play at places who don't treat every single customer like royalty.

But what's the solution? You can't beat people with a stick. If they're not interested in getting involved, what can you do?

I miss Rusty already...who will be my sidekick now in the Topgame thread(s)? We didn't always agree, but we have mutual respect for each other, and ultimately, we both wanted the same thing. Fairness for ALL players.

[Pinababy69]

That would most definitely knock a huge dent in the MOUNTAIN of Affiliate Cash that I am rolling in and making each month...lol

Shit, I quit my day job way back when I first became an affiliate because of all the excess cash I started making from the programs..
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Are your eyes brown by any chance Rob?

You are SO full of it...ha ha. BTW JHV, Rob is definitely one of the good guys. So why don't you two smoke the peace pipe, and start over? Rob wants the same thing that alot of us want. Safe and fair places for players to blow their money. Like Rusty, him and I aren't always on the same page, but he's always open to dialogue about anything. And he'll always give you an honest answer. You can't ask for more than that IMO.

[RobWin]

Are your eyes brown by any chance Rob?

You are SO full of it...ha ha. BTW JHV, Rob is definitely one of the good guys. So why don't you two smoke the peace pipe, and start over? Rob wants the same thing that alot of us want. Safe and fair places for players to blow their money. Like Rusty, him and I aren't always on the same page, but he's always open to dialogue about anything. And he'll always give you an honest answer. You can't ask for more than that IMO.

Thanks Pina, I can go for that...
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[JHV]

Thanks Pina, I can go for that...
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I honestly didn't realise I was fighting with Rob

But I'm definitely down for supporting the good guys! So I'll take a puff of that pipe.

There is just one main affiliate on here who I have referred to without naming yet and not sure it's appropriate to do so just yet - as in, not sure we're at that stage where I can call him out, so to speak...and not get smashed for it.

I'm sure he knows who he is, though. He's popular though, so I might have him pegged completely wrong. It's a complex world of alliances here I have yet to figure out, being so new to the forum, and being silly enough to offend people who probably are interested in the same things I am (fair and ethical gaming practices) by posting unnecessary anti-organised religion posts or otherwise unnecessary sarcasm etc.

I'm not a great strategist, I shoot from the hip and occasionally blow off a toe or two....

[Pinababy69]

I honestly didn't realise I was fighting with Rob

But I'm definitely down for supporting the good guys! So I'll take a puff of that pipe.

There is just one main affiliate on here who I have referred to without naming yet and not sure it's appropriate to do so just yet - as in, not sure we're at that stage where I can call him out, so to speak...and not get smashed for it.

I'm sure he knows who he is, though. He's popular though, so I might have him pegged completely wrong. It's a complex world of alliances here I have yet to figure out, being so new to the forum, and being silly enough to offend people who probably are interested in the same things I am (fair and ethical gaming practices) by posting unnecessary anti-organised religion posts or otherwise unnecessary sarcasm etc.

I'm not a great strategist, I shoot from the hip and occasionally blow off a toe or two....

Thanks for that JHV.

To answer your question in one word....NO.

Direct confrontation with one person isn't a good idea....not here anyway. Much better to stick to the issues and then take it from there, and see who wants to get involved and discuss it. This isn't really the type of forum where you want to start naming and shaming other members, or calling them out. If you can just keep in mind here....to not get too personal, you will be okay. Civilized debate, discussion of issues, differing opinions...that is all okay. But as soon as you make it about one person (or people), the focus is lost.

I can see this thread "could" get heated, but if we can stay focused on whatever it is you (and I or anyone) wants to accomplish, maybe we can actually get some feedback from people here. I'd love to hear from other posters/players as to why they don't take more of an interest in certain topics. And I'd also truly like to hear from some affiliates in re: the choices they make in who to promote, how they deal with player issues, if they keep up to date on player issues...that type of thing.

I hope you were asking for an opinion...seeing as I gave you mine.

I didn't think you and Rob were fighting...just that I think you got off on the wrong foot here overall. Nothing more than that.