Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[spearmaster]

On the contrary, his opinion would appear to be one of the overwhelming majority.

It's called hysteria - the world is coming to an end... the Martians are invading... blah blah blah - without one iota of evidence produced to support his claim that EH were cheating in the PAST.

This is a witch hunt - make no mistake about it. You simply WON'T believe the conclusion because you are sympathetic to people crying wolf.

The issue at hand was dealt with - and my conclusion was that the error was NOT deliberate.

Any other issues - produce some evidence and I will look into it, as I have been saying throughout this thread and others. No evidence? Don't presume to waste my time or anyone else's. What we do is a service for the community at large, voluntarily, for NO CHARGE, for no compensation or even a requirement for thanks. Because it is voluntary and free, I do not think that any of you have the right to make unusual demands on our time - and that is what this amounts to.

I am now done with this thread. I do not have the time or inclination to further deal with unsubstantiated claims.

[kengam]

Spearmaster, what is your problem? Why do you continue to act childish? I did not give you negative rep points because I felt you had a right to post how you felt. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am going to click on a negative mark.


I do not speak for the membership. This poll does, however:


View Poll Results: Is English Harbour guilty of cheating on double up?

I am satisfied with their defense...only a bug 6 9.84%
Cheated in April and most likely cheated before 39 63.93%
Only cheated once, but was caught 3 4.92%
still unsure 13 21.31%

[mitch]

Kengam

I do think Spear has expressed himself a little strongly in his last couple of posts.

However, I do know why he is pissed off with you particularly though. It was your fairly constant attacks on his integrity earlier in this thread. I must admit I did go in to give you some negative rep myself because of this but found that the Meister had locked the thread. Since it reopened you have calmed down on this aspect.

Having opinions is one thing, even though, as Spear says, you would hope that such opinions are expressed based on some sort of empirical evidence rather than prejudice or seperate agenda. However, this is a fairly flexible forum and each to his own I suppose.

Questioning members integrity is another issue entirely and should always come with some evidence to back it up.

Mitch

[soflat]

The issue at hand was dealt with - and my conclusion was that the error was NOT deliberate.

I thought Casinomeister was still considering it. He just posted that today. The issue is not just about intent, and thankfully it is not closed.

Spearmaster, you did a good job. But you and The Wizard of Odds stopped short (the Wizard stopped WAY short, at least you followed through on what you said you were going to do).

Our last hope is Casinomeister. Please don't start bickering about it again. Not all of us are satisfied with what has happened yet, and nobody is demanding that you do anything further.

[kengam]

I sit here and take all sorts of shit from both sides, players and casinos, because I dare to call it as I see it PUBLICLY so that everyone can determine for themselves whether I am reputable or honorable OR NOT.

Don't take everything so personally. Your reputation or honor is not an issue here.

[henryVIII]

Last time there was an outburst like those above the thread was closed down.

I am guessing but is this the objective again? Close the thread and it will go away?

[henryVIII]

Oh, and guess what ... I have recieved negative rep points from CM and spearmaster. The only two people who have given me negative points (thank you to others for the positive ones). Like I care but ... cant anyone state an opinion which is their own not the site's owner?

Feels like I am at school again.

Id rather discuss the case as it is an extremely serious one.

[Casinomeister]

Last time there was an outburst like those above the thread was closed down.

I am guessing but is this the objective again? Close the thread and it will go away?

HenryVIII - will you please just shut up. Thank you.

So let me get this straight. I have received 4 negative reputation marks from Spearmaster and 4 negative reputation marks from Casinomeister. They were all given due to this thread. What kind of forum are you running here? I speak my mind and because you both do not agree then you try to tarnish my reputation. That is real classy.

Kengam - you receive rep points + and - for whatever you post. I chose two posts that I felt were out of line. Spear nailed you for two postings, and as Mitch admitted he nailed you as well. This is our right as members of the forum. If you have a problem with what I'm stating in the forum, you can nail me all you want. That is your right as well.

Through out this thread you have been aggressive, at times insulting, and yes - acting hysterical. I am willing to accept your rants because I know that you are emotional about this situation, but as soon as you start attacking members personally, I draw the line. There is no reason why this discussion can't be held without flipping out on each other. You act as if we're running the damn casino. Just chill. Thank you.

And that goes for everyone.

[Casinomeister]

Oh, and guess what ... I have recieved negative rep points from CM and spearmaster. The only two people who have given me negative points (thank you to others for the positive ones). Like I care but ... cant anyone state an opinion which is their own not the site's owner?...

The comment that I gave you neg points for was in the Fortune Lounge thread. I felt it was out of line - it had nothing to do with this one. Spearmaster is not the site owner by the way.

[kengam]

I apologize to all the members of this forum for getting out of hand with some of these posts. I have issues with English Harbour/Odds ON and had been skeptical about their integrity after losing a lot of dough playing video poker and using the double up feature over the past few years. When my attention was first brought to this thread I was sure that the same was happening to TheLawnet as happened to me and my colleagues. This is what caused me to be angry and post with haste. I am sure that a full audit into this double up game over the past few years would reveal that the game was gaffed early on.

We played the double up extensively as a group and surely our stats alone would put a dent in the overall numbers at this game even if it wasn't happening to everyone. My group concluded that they had caught on to the practice of using double up for advantaged play. We thought it was likely that advantaged gamblers were being targeted directly and a fix was placed into the double up game. All our numbers as far as frequency of royals, 4oak, flush, etc were all within parameters of a fair and random game. Amazingly close to expectation in fact.

The double up stats were a different story altogether. Finding them in use of a gaffed double up game back in April should have been enough to warrant a full investigation and complete audit. I am not at liberty to provide the complete stats of my team. I shouldn't have to. Many of those involved have moved on and some are still very actively involved in advantaged gambling to not want to draw attention to theirselves. The amount lost in this venture was only a fraction of what some are earning today.

I have always respected Spearmaster. I do not think he handled this issue very well, however. I do not understand why he did not push for them to release numbers from year's past. He seemed to be on their defensive side from day one. In my opinion, he gave them a reason to be silent and also gave them a reason for not releasing more information as far as past history of the double up game. I do not think he meant to harm our chances at the truth, but it happened anyway IMO.

As far as reputation points, I do not care that I am in the negative. Spear and Bryan can take away 15 points each time as they have. I tend to think that only looks worse for them. We do not have this power.


Administrators and moderators (Simmo!, Spearmaster, Vortran, and Casinomeister) can give or take away 15 points.