Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[gamemaster]

I doubt very, very much that we're going to hear directly from the casino regarding this incident, but while it's a bit quiet here, allow me to make a prediction. I predict that Spearmaster will conclude that the non-random game was indeed caused by a software malfunction of one sort or another and I feel safe in making that prediction because Spearmaster is examining only what the casino wants him to see. He never claimed to be doing an audit, so we cannot expect him to view all of the evidence that may exist, consequently neither can we expect his report to be anything other than what the casino wants it to be.

It's like me running a contest to have you determine the next number in this series: 1, 3, 8....you don't have enough information to draw a conclusion, so any number you might offer is just a guess, plain and simple. That appears to be the case here - whatever comes out of it will probably be nothing more than a guess. An educated guess, perhaps, but a guess nonetheless.

All of what has happened to date is just smoke and mirrors to me because the casino is (or should be) desperate. The facts - facts determined by outside sources - show that the casino offered a non-random game to the public and, while they did make a reimbursement...what other choice did they really have? The other fact is that no one - not Spearmaster, not the Wizard of Odds, not me, not you - can guarantee that this will never happen again.

My problem and I hope it's the online gaming community's problem as well, is not about a software glitch, which I once again predict will be the findings here, but the fact that English Harbor Casino was allowing people to play a game that had a non-random result and they continued to offer it for a considerable period of time! As I've said before, that shows this operation did not have, at the time, any kind of internal controls to prevent such a thing happening. Why would anyone want to trust their money to such an organization?

I have a lot of respect for Spearmaster and do believe him to be strictly interested in uncovering the truth here (no matter how difficult or impossible that may be), but his flat rejection of asking for previous years' logs of the double up feature by requiring some sort of proof that there was a problem in the past just doesn't compute with me. If I were the casino boss, I'd have my staff produce that in the blink of an eye - assuming they showed the double up results in April/May were an anomaly. It just doesn't make any sense that the casino wouldn't want that data to be examined unless there's some sort of problem with it.

Yes, I understand that Spearmaster is checking only on what happened in April/May, but what happened was that the game was non-random and the reality is, it may have been non-random in the past. If it wasn't, then that might convince some people that this really was just a mistake. I don't see how the two can be separated - doubling is doubling, be it last month or last year. If your game is honest, why not show the data? Of course, if it's not honest then we all understand why you're not showing the data - what other conclusion can we draw?

I'll state my position once again at the risk of boring you all. I really don't care if this was a 'glitch' or not; the casino allowed a non-random game to be played by its customers and in this business, it's one strike and you're out. There are a lot of other choices out there who do not have 'glitches' and, in fact, have games with a lower house edge anyway. The online gambling community must stand firm with a zero-tolerance policy in matters like this or it will ultimately pay too high a price for our chosen form of entertainment.

Boycott English Harbor Casino and any other that uses OddsOn software.

GM

[spearmaster]

I doubt very, very much that we're going to hear directly from the casino regarding this incident, but while it's a bit quiet here, allow me to make a prediction. I predict that Spearmaster will conclude that the non-random game was indeed caused by a software malfunction of one sort or another and I feel safe in making that prediction because Spearmaster is examining only what the casino wants him to see. He never claimed to be doing an audit, so we cannot expect him to view all of the evidence that may exist, consequently neither can we expect his report to be anything other than what the casino wants it to be.

To be fair, this is not correct - I am examining what I want to see. I asked for further information which they may or may not have known I would ask for, and I received everything that I asked for without delay or explanation required.

All of what has happened to date is just smoke and mirrors to me because the casino is (or should be) desperate. The facts - facts determined by outside sources - show that the casino offered a non-random game to the public and, while they did make a reimbursement...what other choice did they really have? The other fact is that no one - not Spearmaster, not the Wizard of Odds, not me, not you - can guarantee that this will never happen again.

Unfortunately, the same stands true for any software provider.

My problem and I hope it's the online gaming community's problem as well, is not about a software glitch, which I once again predict will be the findings here, but the fact that English Harbor Casino was allowing people to play a game that had a non-random result and they continued to offer it for a considerable period of time! As I've said before, that shows this operation did not have, at the time, any kind of internal controls to prevent such a thing happening. Why would anyone want to trust their money to such an organization?

My take is that the internal controls were not good enough - probably very basic, at that.

I have a lot of respect for Spearmaster and do believe him to be strictly interested in uncovering the truth here (no matter how difficult or impossible that may be), but his flat rejection of asking for previous years' logs of the double up feature by requiring some sort of proof that there was a problem in the past just doesn't compute with me. If I were the casino boss, I'd have my staff produce that in the blink of an eye - assuming they showed the double up results in April/May were an anomaly. It just doesn't make any sense that the casino wouldn't want that data to be examined unless there's some sort of problem with it.

Not that I don't agree... if they want to cough up that information they certainly can, but I certainly don't require it for my purposes and no one has shown me any evidence that would change my mind.

Yes, I understand that Spearmaster is checking only on what happened in April/May, but what happened was that the game was non-random and the reality is, it may have been non-random in the past. If it wasn't, then that might convince some people that this really was just a mistake. I don't see how the two can be separated - doubling is doubling, be it last month or last year. If your game is honest, why not show the data? Of course, if it's not honest then we all understand why you're not showing the data - what other conclusion can we draw?

Any supplier's game could have been non-random in the past. In this case, however, if for some reason there was another event that caused a game to be non-random, it is highly unlikely that the code that caused this problem would have been involved - and I will try to show that in my report as soon as I finish cleaning up the simulation code.

Again, I thank you for your kind words. Maybe your trust is misplaced, judging by the reactions of some other people - but I know that I am sleeping comfortably at night (barring the jetlag) and without any worries that I have done the wrong thing.

[ftg]

Spearmaster,

To be honest, if you were the boss (shareholder or/and director) of EH/Odds On, would you ask your staff to produce logs for previous months/years?

[spearmaster]

Spearmaster,

To be honest, if you were the boss (shareholder or/and director) of EH/Odds On, would you ask your staff to produce logs for previous months/years?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: It takes time to gather all this information, it's not like it just sits there on a server waiting to be extracted. Log files for any gaming server will be huge - and thus only a limited period of time will actually be live - for example, with Microgaming casinos you can check back 7 days. Anything more than that is probably backed up to tape drives or something of the sort - which is why it takes time for them to provide logs for any period beyond 7 days.

I presume that this same problem will be an issue here. If EH were to produce the logs, it will take some time for them to extract this information for a longer period of time, I'd imagine. I don't know how complicated this would be for them but it probably isn't as simple as running a query and getting all the results in a few seconds.

Then there's the issue of exactly WHO should be getting access to the logs - for sure they're not going to open them up to everyone.

[GrandMaster]

Actually, Playcheck now shows 21 days. A month has passed, this should have been enough time to dig out and analyze the logs. The full logs are obviously too big and contain commercially sensitive information, but a trusted 3rd party could analyze them and produce a report.

[spearmaster]

Actually, Playcheck now shows 21 days. A month has passed, this should have been enough time to dig out and analyze the logs. The full logs are obviously too big and contain commercially sensitive information, but a trusted 3rd party could analyze them and produce a report.

Just goes to show you how long it's been since I've looked at my own logs... LOL...

I'm only speculating at this point, but I don't think they exactly jumped to get out all the logs when the issue happened. If they had decided to do an internal audit, obviously they would have had all this information available by now - so I'm presuming they don't believe there's a problem from the past.

Nevertheless, this is something they can consider if they wish - I assume that they would ask the Wiz to do that analysis.

[nektar4d]

to reach a conclusion?
It's been more than a month from the initial post and still at the same point...
This thread has become enormous and probably difficult to follow, especially if someone reads it for the 1st time. I haven't myself read the last 10 days posts, but I remember there was supposed to be a decisive meeting in Montreal in mid-May...
If it's going to take months, we may lose the forest and find just one analysis-tree

[thelawnet]

Just goes to show you how long it's been since I've looked at my own logs... LOL...

I'm only speculating at this point, but I don't think they exactly jumped to get out all the logs when the issue happened. If they had decided to do an internal audit, obviously they would have had all this information available by now - so I'm presuming they don't believe there's a problem from the past.

Nevertheless, this is something they can consider if they wish - I assume that they would ask the Wiz to do that analysis.

have you finished with EH now?

Is this it?

Or can we expect another statement?

[kengam]

This isn't it from me. English Harbour is just hoping this is forgotten. I still can't believe they didn't even issue a statement. We will not forget that is for sure.

[suzecat]

Spear, hope you are well.

Been toe-tapping for weeks now, being cool and waiting for some revelation from EH/Oddson that would sum up the problem and/or assure players that the casino was safe/fair. All I can take from this thread is that EH/Oddson thinks it is ok to remain silent and just weather the storm. "Do as I say, not as I do." Just deposit and lose and all is fine, no mea culpas are needed.

Spear I appreciate all your efforts to bring something to the forum by way of explanation. That was the human reaction when you knew that more info was needed. I find it regrettable that EH/Oddson hung you out to dry instead of stepping up to the plate and taking some freakin' rersponsibility for the mess that THEY CREATED.

And life goes on............will I ever play again at EH/Oddson? Probably not, well, actually, a resounding NO. Too many fair groups out there to play at one that has proven its ability to cheat/stack the odds/diss me/give me the cold shoulder/think I am stoopid/etc. etc. ad nauseum............