Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

**thelawnet** · 30th April 2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by tencardcharlie

I have now also run an experiment to test if the doubling at english harbour is fair. I have done the test in play money mode, Jacks and better single hand.

My results are: 37 wins, and 100 losses. According to my calculations this is almost an -5.4 standard deviation event if the game had been fair. The conclusion is the therefore the same as thelawnets':

The dubling feature at english harbour is not fair.

However, I have also done a similar experiment at fire and ice casino with a result of 55 wins and 59 losses, which of course is not unormal. My conclusion of from that experiment is therefore:

It has not been shown that the doubling feature at Ice and fire casino is not fair.

Is seems like different casinos using the same software can deal different games. It would be good if others would like to duplicate the experiments to try out different casinos using thje same software.

I agree.

I tried Hot Pepper (sister of Fire and Ice), and doing a very brief test, got 12 wins, 11 losses.

A very brief test on Millionare casino (in the English Harbour group), came up 9 wins, 17 losses.

So my belief is that the English Harbour group of casinos are all cheating, but non English Harbour casinos are likely not.

The group is

Apostle Casino
Casino Bleu Blanc Rouge
Caribbean Gold Casino
English Harbour Casino
Super Slots Casino
Millionaire Casino
Magic Lamp Casino
All Poker Casino
Silver Dollar Casino

**Simmo!** · 30th April 2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by largeeyes

Liquid, I have respected your posts for a long time but your posts to this thread border on insanity.

Be fair on the guy TLN, he later retracted his statement and admitted he doesn't believe himslef anymore. That deserves credit.

I know these are smallish samples, and I've always been a fan of large samples before seeing something as statistical proof, but I have to say this is looking decidedly spooky. I agree with whoever it was earlier - run it by Michael Shackleford at WizardOfOdds and get his opinion.

None of these small samples people have contributed are even close to 50/50.

Keep the samples coming...would suggest sticking to fun mode for now though. Will try myself later.

Simmo!

**realwtfsup** · 30th April 2006, 11:56 AM

Looked up Odds On software on Wizard of Odds site. This is right on top.

Disclaimer: Let it be known that I have served as a consultant to Odds On. This review attempts to be unbiased and mostly sticks to the game rules, odds, and strategy. While I feel comfortable there is no conflict of interest I think it is appropriate to disclose the relationship.

Odds On has a good selection of games, with many games unique to Odds On. The odds vary from stingy to competitive depending on the game. In general the games of skill tend to offer good odds (although blackjack is an exception) and games of luck are more tight.

Will see what he has to say about there software now. I am convinced they are a cheating software.

**dresden** · 30th April 2006, 12:00 PM

My 100-double trial results on play money at English Harbour:

W - 22
L - 64
T -14

**realwtfsup** · 30th April 2006, 12:01 PM

From the Wizardofodds blacklist is this.

All Elka System/Oyster Gaming casinos: After getting some anecdotal evidence that Netgaming.com was cheating in free play mode I gave them a try. In their single zero roulette game I placed 200 bets on red. My results were 133 wins and 67 losses. The probability of 133 or more wins in 200 spins is 1 in 3,788,515. So obviously they were letting me win. I blame the software for this and thus add all Elka/Oyster Gaming casinos to my blacklist

He only needed 200 bets to claim there software is cheating.

**realwtfsup** · 30th April 2006, 12:50 PM

My results

I played Dueces & Joker 4 play doubled once after every win

Loss 61
win 33
tie 6

**Casinomeister** · 30th April 2006, 01:10 PM

M. Shackleford is the auditor (or at least the one they use) for Oddson.
"Certified Fair Gambling Seal of Approval" http://www.oddson.com/

As far as I know, individual operators have no influence on any particular game's output or they way they function. And this is the first time that I remember anyone complaining about Oddson VP. I'll check on this in the next day or so. (it's a holiday weekend here).

**thelawnet** · 30th April 2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

M. Shackleford is the auditor (or at least the one they use) for Oddson.
"Certified Fair Gambling Seal of Approval" http://www.oddson.com/

As far as I know, individual operators have no influence on any particular game's output or they way they function. And this is the first time that I remember anyone complaining about Oddson VP. I'll check on this in the next day or so. (it's a holiday weekend here).

To clarify, it appears to be specifically limited to the English Harbour group rather than all OddsOn. I had no problems when I played last year, so it's possible the software was bad then but I did not notice it; otherwise, something has changed.

With regards to any audit, it would take hundreds of hours to actually audit every line of code and check that it is fair, and would be a major break on ay software upgrade plans. I would imagine that an audit is limited to the random number generator's ability to produce random number, and find it extremely improbable that he has actually audited the doublign code.

**Zoozie** · 30th April 2006, 01:26 PM

The so far small samples gives a clear indication of 'suspicious' doubling feature at one casino group using OddsOn software. However even if it is just one casino group and given there is cheating involved, the problem lies within the OddsOn software and all OddsOn casinos should be rogued since the software can be manipulated. And if it can be manipulated I would expect that the English Harbour group decide to 'unmanipulate' this very fast again. So we might be in a hurry to collect a large sample size.

It also comes to my mind that whenever such an accusation occours, people that feel cheated (or was unlucky) are much more likely to post these results than those who was luckier. However I find this case interesting as I myself (confirming my theory) really
feel cheated when doubling VP at English Harbour casino. So I never double anymore at any casino. (W=2 L=23 or something very close after I increased bet to 5$, dont know if bet size is important, it could be).

It is a very serious accusation so stay cool and let some experts investigate it and not
turn this into a witch hunt.

Zoozie

**thelawnet** · 30th April 2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Zoozie

The so far small samples gives a clear indication of 'suspicious' doubling feature at one casino group using OddsOn software. However even if it is just one casino group and given there is cheating involved, the problem lies within the OddsOn software and all OddsOn casinos should be rogued since the software can be manipulated. And if it can be manipulated I would expect that the English Harbour group decide to 'unmanipulate' this very fast again. So we might be in a hurry to collect a large sample size.

It also comes to my mind that whenever such an accusation occours, people that feel cheated (or was unlucky) are much more likely to post these results than those who was luckier.

That is a good point, and you do get from time to time people saying that they lost 18 out of 20 hands at intercasino or whatever, and the point then is it probably is just a freak sample.

But here I have posted a sample, and people who have never played at the casino before and do not feel cheated because they have not given them any money, have posted their results, and they confirm what I said, which is that they are cheating.