Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I - like you - are still waiting for the final word from Spear, M. Shackleford, and the Grandmaster on their final findings. These people, in my opinion, are qualified to give "expert" opinions on this.

It appears from Shackleford's website that he has finished with this issue. Do you know that he is going to comment further?

Re Grandmaster, the last thing he said was that he has not been given any data or code by the casino, beyond what has already been posted in here. Has this changed: if not, I cannot see what further he can add without being furnished with this code/data.

[ftg]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

And if he'd been quiet, you all would have condemned him for that as well, and screamed cover-up. That he was buying time to come up with a plausible explanation.

Proof of this please. Please don't "IF".

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

I'd be emotional too if I had to read people questioning my integrity and attacking my reputation over and over. People who haven't spent 6 or more years working in this industry and building that reputation. People who sit back and read forums and think they know it all.

So only he can be emotional but not the player lost his hard earned $$$?

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

I don't see where he ever acted as a spokesman for the casino (see my previous post). That being said, I do agree that EH should have gotten in here and at least made a statement on their own. Although I can only imagine what kind of free-for-all that would have turned into.

"Acted like" please......

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

What purpose did it serve? I think everyone pretty much agrees that there is very little trust between EH and the players, and most people have already stated they wouldn't play there anymore, myself included. I also believe that you were told you could start a poll once this was concluded ie. final report posted. I can search that if you'd like..

OK. It serves nothing. So why bother to suspend it?

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

I'll say it again, Spearmaster is independent. He does not work for the casino, he does not get paid by the casino, he does not earn revenue from the casino. Exactly what third party (who's qualified) would you suggest take over this monumental task? Maybe one of the lynch mob who've been posting in this thread? You know, one of the unbiased ones (pure sarcasm there in case you missed it).

OK. He's indenpend. I'm too. I don't play EH/odds on. So what?

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

Spearmaster wasn't forcing anyone to believe him either.)

No comments.

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

Don't know Gamemaster, so I can't comment. Who is he? No insult intended, I really don't know.

What if someone says "Don't know Spearmaster, so I can't comment. Who is he? No insult intended, I really don't know."

[spearmaster]

Well, I shall vouch for Gamemaster - he is a reputable, well-known webmaster and has never given anyone cause to believe that he is not full of integrity.

Doesn't mean I agree with him all the time - but we're entitled to disagree and he is still someone who should be respected.

As for me - if someone doesn't know me, they don't know me ... can't expect everyone to know who everyone else is...

[kengam]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

I put in 100K over the past five years and broke about even.

Put up or shut up. End of story. And look who's crying now?

This is just too funny... I still miss arguing with you - but you know damn well I require data before I can investigate anything. You have no logs, no data, not one iota of evidence - how in the world do you expect anyone to believe you?

I apologize. I still like arguing with you - but the least you can do is play by the rules.

I am mad because an outfit that I believed had cheated me out of 40 grand was now proven to be cheating. You are angry because you feel insulted that informed players aren't kissing your pompous arse like others in this thread. You keep telling me to give you the numbers. My numbers would look something like this:

deposits 450,000
bonuses 110,000
withdrawals 380,000

double up wins 750 losses 975

These are pretty close to how I personally did. Others on my team did much worse, but overall the win/loss %age would be about the same. We had played the double up game about 10,000 times before we abandoned the practice.

[ftg]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Well, I shall vouch for Gamemaster - he is a reputable, well-known webmaster and has never given anyone cause to believe that he is not full of integrity.

Doesn't mean I agree with him all the time - but we're entitled to disagree and he is still someone who should be respected.

As for me - if someone doesn't know me, they don't know me ... can't expect everyone to know who everyone else is...

Spearmaster, to be frank, I am not questioning your integrity. In fact, more than once, I say I really thank you and appreciate your work and your contribution to the industry. And I don't think you are lying and are bought, as some of the people here and there mention. NO! I don't believe.

But sometimes we just can't agree to someone because he's reputable or he's famous.

No offense. I just can't imagine Bush says "Believe me, I have been the president of USA for 6 years! That can't be wrong for a person of Americans choice."

[spearmaster]

You know that I don't expect anyone to kiss my big fat ass - people can do so if they wish but I certainly don't expect it

I would have expected you - and your team - to be organized enough to keep track of your performance. In fact, I am stunned that you didn't, since you always seemed to keep records in the past.

But that's beside the point. You know that I or Meister will always be happy to investigate any problems if there is any substance behind them - whether it be a bonus claim, or bonus fraud, or interpretation of T&Cs, or casino bug - provided that you give us legitimate data to work with.

I'm sorry you don't agree with that - but it is simply not reasonable to go investigate every claim that a casino is rigged, nor to use a case like this to justify your past results.

You can try and get your logs from EH for the past however many years if you like - then if you believe they are still messed up, send them to me and I will investigate. Otherwise, forget it - I still have to report on the issue at hand and take care of a million other unrelated things.

[soflat]

Originally Posted by thelawnet

It appears from Shackleford's website that he has finished with this issue. Do you know that he is going to comment further?

Re Grandmaster, the last thing he said was that he has not been given any data or code by the casino, beyond what has already been posted in here. Has this changed: if not, I cannot see what further he can add without being furnished with this code/data.

Shackleford's EH page says: "Although both English Harbor and myself believe that April 13 to May 2 was the only period affected we will be scrutinizing earlier logs to make sure, and will be monitoring future play closely."

I don't know why he thinks it was the only period affected. But hopefully he will follow through and go back through 24-36 months of the data.

Unfortunately, this is not going to be possible if EH is not letting him have the data.

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by ftg

Proof of this please. Please don't "IF".

Proof? How about the casino remaining silent? Hasn't that been as damning as anything? Spear tried to provide some info as he went along and all he got in return was insulted. Yeah, I'm with MacGyver on this one....insulted.

Please don't IF? That's pretty funny considering that is all that alot of posters in this thread have done...supposition and assumption. I haven't seen any proof of cheating (as yet), I have seen admission of error, nothing more (again, as yet). Not to say they didn't cheat, but I don't know.

Originally Posted by ftg

So only he can be emotional but not the player lost his hard earned $$$?

Read Spear's last post, he was also a player and lost more than another poster in the thread, two and a half times as much. Emotional is one thing, but I didn't see Spearmaster insulting anyone, or impugning their reputation. I saw him trying to be as neutral as possible. Forgive him for not dragging EH management out into the street and stoning them, before having all the facts at his disposal.

Originally Posted by ftg

"Acted like" please......

Whatever that's supposed to mean. You perceive his words one way, I perceive them differently. I see neutrality, you see bias. No agreement on this one.

Originally Posted by ftg

OK. It serves nothing. So why bother to suspend it?

Because it served no purpose than to open another thread dealing with the very same subject, and no doubt leading to even more inflammatory postings. As I said before, I'm pretty sure you were told you could have a poll when the final findings were in. Why the urgency for this poll? Why the need for another thread?

Originally Posted by ftg

OK. He's indenpend. I'm too. I don't play EH/odds on. So what?

So what? Isn't the whole basis for this part of the debate that Spear doesn't "seem" to be acting as an independent agent? That he is in fact biased? I've seen much more bias from the players/posters here than anyone else.

Originally Posted by ftg

No comments.

?? Okay.

Originally Posted by ftg

What if someone says "Don't know Spearmaster, so I can't comment. Who is he? No insult intended, I really don't know."

Fair enough. I just personally don't know him is what I was trying to say. And I just assumed that anyone who comes to this particular forum would know Spearmaster and his reputation for fairness.

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by ftg

Spearmaster, to be frank, I am not questioning your integrity. In fact, more than once, I say I really thank you and appreciate your work and your contribution to the industry. And I don't think you are lying and are bought, as some of the people here and there mention. NO! I don't believe.

But sometimes we just can't agree to someone because he's reputable or he's famous.

No offense. I just can't imagine Bush says "Believe me, I have been the president of USA for 6 years! That can't be wrong for a person of Americans choice."

I understand that, ftg, thanks. But I simply thought that I would vouch for Gamemaster because I hadn't seen that before, too much other stuff in the therad and I'm beginning to skim things...

Nevertheless - there are 6 years worth of public posts here and elsewhere and I think you can make up your own mind. You can believe me, or you don't - either way it's your choice. Not saying right or wrong but it's out there and naturally I believe my record speaks for itself.

[Casinomeister]

Okay, everyone needs to chill.

"You are angry because you feel insulted that informed players aren't kissing your pompous arse like others in this thread" just gave Kengam a seven day holiday.

Personal insults are not tolerated here.