Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[spearmaster]

Whichever way you slice this there's no scenario that leaves them looking honest, decent or credible.

Then that is my fault, because they haven't said a thing, and I've said a lot based on what I have seen and you guys don't believe me. So I will take responsibility for laying out an unbelievable scenario and you guys can just ignore anything I say in the future because you believe that I am not telling the truth.

EH has not ONCE, in any instance, even contacted me to ask me NOT to say anything, or to say anything in their favor, or anything at all except to ask when I am going to be finished with my analysis. You can rest assured that everything that has been said after their statement compensating the players that EVERY single word and opinion has been MINE, and mine alone.

So if you think EH is going to come on board now when you have already locked the door and thrown away the key without a fair trial, then you have another think coming.

And as for me, I'm in the middle of a 30-hour flight home, but I think that since you guys are NOT willing to listen to an independent analysis, that I am just going to drop the whole damn thing. I would rather get home and sleep soundly on the plane than worry about what knife you are going to pull out next.

That's it. Sorry if I've misled everyone, bothered anyone, let anyone down, whatever, but I have finally lost my patience. I am NOT ever again going to speak up for people who are not willing to keep an open mind and realize that there are two sides to every coin.

[thelawnet]

Then that is my fault, because they haven't said a thing, and I've said a lot based on what I have seen and you guys don't believe me. So I will take responsibility for laying out an unbelievable scenario and you guys can just ignore anything I say in the future because you believe that I am not telling the truth.

EH has not ONCE, in any instance, even contacted me to ask me NOT to say anything, or to say anything in their favor, or anything at all except to ask when I am going to be finished with my analysis. You can rest assured that everything that has been said after their statement compensating the players that EVERY single word and opinion has been MINE, and mine alone.

So if you think EH is going to come on board now when you have already locked the door and thrown away the key without a fair trial, then you have another think coming.

But that's to their detriment.

They are the one with the serious credibility problem. They are the only ones who should care less. If they don't want to speak up for themselves, they are only damaging themselves. Not me, not Vesuvio, not anybody else.

And as for me, I'm in the middle of a 30-hour flight home, but I think that since you guys are NOT willing to listen to an independent analysis, that I am just going to drop the whole damn thing. I would rather get home and sleep soundly on the plane than worry about what knife you are going to pull out next.

That's it. Sorry if I've misled everyone, bothered anyone, let anyone down, whatever, but I have finally lost my patience. I am NOT ever again going to speak up for people who are not willing to keep an open mind and realize that there are two sides to every coin.

Well I hope you know that I have not impugned your character. But perhaps it would be better if they did speak for themselves, because they have seriously not handled this well, and you should not be the one standing up for them and acting as the target for criticism of them.

[ergopro]

See above. The doubling game must by nature include a dealer element - you must beat the dealer in order to win.

Here in local Video poker games we have a doubling where it deals one card face down and you just have to guess if the card is either "low" A-6 or "high" 8-K ...in case a 7 shows up, house wins Sorry, a bit off topic...
Oh, one more thing...anyone thought that since EH owns OddsOn, they might not use the same code as other OddsOn clients do...since they deliver the platform to clients?

[Mousey]

Spearmaster -- I don't think you're biased in favor of the casino. And I truly appreciate all the time you've spent looking at the code, explaining what happened, and monitoring this thread.

Being dense (I'm just a player, having no clue about programming or the math), I still don't grasp how the VP played normally, without errors or red X's or crashes or lockups or any of those other things I'm accustomed to experiencing when software is buggy. This has probably been addressed in previous posts and I'll wade back into this monster thread to see if I can find it.

All things considered, will I play OddsOn again? Probably not. Frankly, this whole episode has placed a huge grain of doubt in my mind pertaining to the fairness of online casino software in general.

[ergopro]

I'd play on any other OddsOn casino even after reading this thread, just not EH...I honestly think that even EH makes their end rigged, I don't think they'd survive an attempt of selling rigged software to clients...players would find it out sooner or later. Like I'd like to believe what's happened here is that they made a mistake, but with all the info...and the fact that EH takes care of all programming before releasing the software to clients, would they alter their own software with a code that makes it non-random, probably not...probably would...what's the end result...losing all trust towards them...If they've handled 2,3million customers in the past...well, can probably move the comma after this...Just as bad as finding out that momma has balls...Sorry, just my 2cents...

One question to those who are pros with this kinda stuff...are the alterations coded to the front end code of the software or to the back end and uploaded after that?

[HKGambler]

They then got their programmers to write bogus code to back this up and pass it out for examination.

As I say this is all hypothetical but could this be possible?

Me, having been doing accounting jobs for several years, know too damn well the tricks- for example, how to do cover-ups; how to fake figures to fool the auditors. And the auditors have no way to, as they seldom do, inquire to the bottom to 100% verify the sheets given.

[ergopro]

Still would like to know if the code you were sent was meant for front or back end of the main code...? The front end is written with C++ and the back end is with Java...if the code is supposed to be in the front end...then it's bogus...also, try replacing the figures at page xx EH sent...put 1 in front of all won doubles and 2 in front of all losing doubles and see if it's resemblant of the figures cought in the "rigged" period =) Hehe, conspiracy theory =)

[Vesuvio]

My whole point is that the nature of elements used in the bonus game were irrelevant - it was only after I wote that bit that I realized everyone was thinking that a dealer element was present - there is no dealer element in the bonus game. It is functionally equivalent to being asked to select one of four sticks, or colors, or whatever in the presentation. You do not have to beat the dealer to get your multiplier.

I can't speak for everyone but I didn't think there was any dealer element. That doesn't stop it being a game that deals cards. I understand your point but disagree with it. The elements chosen weren't random symbols and if you're displaying cards the player expects them to be dealt fairly. Anything else and you're undermining all the other games involving cards at the casino.

Irrelevant. Considering the nature of the bug, it would not have been an issue in past few years unless somehow we allowed it to go undetected - and as the logs of April show, the game WAS normal before the bug was introduced.

But you're assuming 1) it's a bug, 2) they never allowed any similar bugs to be introduced, 3) it's impossible to turn it off and on & 4) it's impossible players might not have noticed unfair results, even if the house advantage was much smaller. Yep, it's not directly relevant to the code you're analysing, but EH should provide the data as it'll go a long way to improving their credibility.

And I have already stated that I don't argue with your right to be skeptical - but then telling me that you don't believe what I am seeing, well, what do you expect from me?

I'm in no way questioning that you're giving your honest opinion about this matter, for which I'm grateful. I just disagree with your interpretation. I know you've ended up in a hugely stressful position, but that doesn't mean you're up against a lynch mob. Other people are also just trying to do their best to get at the truth here.

[cryingbaby]

Belive or Not:
Five years ago, I was a game developer with 10 years software development experience. one player won about $200K on double (only) in couple days. that caused the attention, what could happen? was it just lucky for that player? It was difficult time for developers SINCE there was no such forum somebody could tell us some clues... that player won on 100% double as long as there was one card higher than the face up card...
Here comes the end: the bug was found out after spending nights without sleeping (you might think I was stupid and worst developer in the world, I woudl not mind, but that was reality) ---- the double cards were dealt to the player when the double option was given to the player, not after the player selects to play double game, that player basically deciphed the communication layer and found out this bug and knew the whole cards before he decided which card to pick on double.....

Forgive Or Not:
Of course, the company lost the money and blocked that player( that was the only option for the boss, what else could they do?)...

The company did not fire the development team, I think they forgave the mistake, but the developers blamed themselves for the forgiveness for long time... at least it was for me, after that lesson, I have been trying so hard to make code perfect, but would perfection exists in this world?

[ergopro]

Honestly, Spear...you're making a wonderful job examining the code...but the main fact is that there's always two more to outlast your ´final word...I'd say that they've made a switch, got caught, covered it up by sending you a bogus code and now try to think how to cover that up...Just my 2 cents.
Nothing comes out from nothing...Ex nihilo nihili... =)
Even you can tell when they've done it...You were sent a scrappy Java scrip that isn't compatible with the C++ code they use in their front end where the problem existed? Didn't anyone think of that before? It raises a h*ll lot of questions...If they were to insert that code in to the main source code...it still would've been done a x amount of times in their "test bench" before releasing...no programmer/coder has the authoroties to do that!!! So why does it sound fishy...because it is Cheaters, caught...and a cover-up...end of story...Could you also produce us a time-stamp when the code you got was made? That would be really interesting to see...Ban me if you want...But they cheat!