Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

**erp1** · 16th May 2006, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by spearmaster

I think that's got to be an individual choice. When all the facts are laid out on the table, everyone must decide for themselves what to do with these facts. My own personal objective is to get the facts out. I cannot tell people to support EH, or boycott EH, I can only try to get as many facts as they can and hopefully present them in an objective, unbiased manner, at least from my point of view (since I have to interpret code and intent).

I appreciate that stance. Let's try to get as many facts as possible and let�s analyze the evidence with an open mind.

But let me add: I have tried a variety of possible interpretation of the events. All of them lead to the verdict: guilty in un-acceptable conduct.

**mitch** · 16th May 2006, 07:27 PM

Spear

Can you clear up once and for all the question raised by the fact that this bug only seemed to affect EH casino. ie

Are casinos, licenced to use Odds On software, able to alter the source code in a way that could alter payouts to players and do Odds On provide the means to do so?

This is a simple question and Odds on should be able to give a simple and unambiguous reply.

Mitch

**spearmaster** · 17th May 2006, 12:08 AM

Hi Mitch!

I will try to get those answers for you ASAP - but as far as I know only EH was affected, and the casino operators themselves do not have access to code or any "switches".

I also expect to have a detailed post outlining what happened but I need one more confirmation from outside, and then it will take a bit of time to compose the whole thing because I want to try and do it in as clear a manner as possible - and I have to find time between all my other appointments here in Montreal LOL.

**mitch** · 17th May 2006, 12:53 AM

Cheers Spear.

Mitch

**ftg** · 17th May 2006, 01:29 AM

Hi, Spearmaster,

I always respect you and respect your contribution to the industry.

I just can't believe you shut down my poll in another thread. Do you think we really need to have all the "facts" laid down before we players can make decision(s)? Even if you think so, you or someone can start another poll setup once you think all the "facts" are available!

**spearmaster** · 17th May 2006, 06:06 AM

A previous poll had been shut down as well. I think it is not reasonable to hold such a poll without having facts in front of you - especially if you know those facts are due shortly.

If everyone thinks I'm wasting my time - fine. You don't want the truth - fine. But until such time as I post my findings, there will be no polls - unless Casinomeister disagrees in which case the poll will be restored. I find it incredible that people have closed their minds to any possibility that the problem was unintentional - I can only imagine how you would feel if you had been unfairly judged before the facts came to light when some casino decides you've abused a bonus, or opened a duplicate account, and someone else opened a poll to bring judgement down upon you.

**ftg** · 17th May 2006, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by spearmaster

A previous poll had been shut down as well. I think it is not reasonable to hold such a poll without having facts in front of you - especially if you know those facts are due shortly.

If everyone thinks I'm wasting my time - fine. You don't want the truth - fine. But until such time as I post my findings, there will be no polls - unless Casinomeister disagrees in which case the poll will be restored. I find it incredible that people have closed their minds to any possibility that the problem was unintentional - I can only imagine how you would feel if you had been unfairly judged before the facts came to light when some casino decides you've abused a bonus, or opened a duplicate account, and someone else opened a poll to bring judgement down upon you.

Sorry, but I really can't agree with you on closing my poll, which is quite neutral by itself.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...s-casinos.html

Look at the 4 options:

1. NO! Never at neither at EH nor Odds On.

2. Never at EH but other Odds On OK.

3. Perhaps, depends on further Wiz/Spearmaster/EH/Odds findings/announcements

4. YES! Both EH and Odds On casinos.

People choose 1 becasue either they think they cheat or they don't like the casinos to have things like that happened even if it's nothing to do with cheating.

Option 3 actually allow people to see further findings before making decision.

What's wrong with that? And I see about 30% people are actually choosing option 3!

While you don't know why "people have closed their minds to any possibility that the problem was unintentional" ( I don't know why too), I don't know why some others have closed their minds to any possibility that the problem was intentional. For me, I am still 50-50 about this but i still think I won't play at the casinos anymore.

I just believe there's no need for you to put yourself at either side.

**sirius** · 17th May 2006, 08:11 AM

I'm a bit bemused how the Wiz can state on the front page of his site that it was a 'software bug' as if it was a known fact. We all know Odds On claimed it was a bug but that is obviously questionable.

About 6 years ago I proved a casino was cheating at roulette. I carried on playing until the chance in a fair game was over a trillion to one (1 in 1,191,708,106,582 to be exact). I could have stopped at the millions or billions to one but wanted it to be conclusive. I lost $1000 during this but they refunded it.

This was the casino's response (also claiming software error):

We have been treating your complaint with the utmost degree of seriousness.
Please let me explain to you fully what has happened, what we have done to
resolve the issue on the software side and what we intend to do about it,
financially, for you.

Firstly, however, let me say that with a complaint of this nature, 24 hours
to respond/resolve the matter is to be expected.

After fully investigating the matter here and at our gaming servers, we have
discovered a software glitch that affected your account on that game, and
your account on that game only. We have now resolved this matter to our 100%
satisfaction.

I should say that Gaming Data Solutions made a large investment in Asian
Gamble. All our games have been created from the ground up by
industry-leading programmers and software designers, and underwent extensive
testing all through our development period (18 months) and for three months
prior to launch. This problem did not arise at any point during any of that
testing.

We have not licensed software because we intend to be around for a very long
time. To suggest, therefore, that we intend to 'cheat' is something that I,
personally, and we as a company, have taken considerable offence with.
...

Our records also show hundreds of other gamers playing Roulette at the same
time as you (this was a funny claim because I am pretty sure I was the only one playing the roulette at the time). None of these players have complained about our service,
because the games at Asian Gamble are not 'fixed' in any way. We do not
cheat.

We do, however - or did - have a glitch in your game. And for that, I would
like to extend my full apologies.

To help make amends, we are prepared to make an immediate credit of $1000 to
your Asian Gamble account or to your credit card (through FundsFast). We
hope that you will consider this fair. I will personally ensure that this
credit is made on Monday,11th September. Please let me know where you would
like the money to go.

I hope that this meets with your satisfaction. Should you have any further
questions, please do not hesitate to let me know.

Kind regards,

adam@theredline.com

When pressured for more details on the 'glitch', they claimed it was a problem with the 'game reader' (whatever that is) sending and receiving the wrong information. That was supposed to explain how it kept missing my numbers that I picked but whenever I changed them the previous numbers started appearing!

More info here: http://mb.winneronline.com/showthread.html?t=1285

**spearmaster** · 17th May 2006, 02:59 PM

Geez... I remember Asian Gamble well...

Nevertheless - and also with regard to your assertion elsewhere - the chances of the code I have seen being a fix are pretty slim, and this is 30 years of experience in coding talking.

I'm going to try to work through the explanation today as I don't have any appointments this morning - if all goes well I'll get the rest of the numbers I need today and I'll have everything on the table by tomorrow.

**slash1** · 17th May 2006, 03:27 PM

Spear, I have been following this tread since the beginning and was just wondering if you have a full time job. If so how do you find time to do all you have done to get this sorted out. It would seem that it would take up a lot of your time sorting through this.
It may not sound like it all the time but I think most appreciate the work you are doing on it.

Slash