Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

**kengam** · 8th May 2006, 07:33 PM

Was this the first time that this "bug" could be found in this software? As a professional player for many years I can tell you that I have thought this software to be dealing biased double ups a couple times in the past. The double up feature, as most of you know, was heavily utilized by pros because it satisfied wagering requirements wihtout having a house edge. Myself and others collectively had data that suggested that the double up was not being dealt fairly. Our results weren't as bad as evidenced in April, but bad enough for a group of bright mathematically inclined individuals to abandon the practice of using the double up feature.

If I had to guess, the win/loss frequency can be set to unfair levels. This "switch" as most like to call it, is not always off and not always on. As a group we have noted periods of time where it was at an acceptable level and then periods of time when it seemed skewed. Had we known for sure that play mode and real mode were dealt the same we would have saved a whole bunch of money trying to determine if it was dealing properly.

I have not been to this site in quite a while, but I was drawn to this thread because I have extensive play using the double up and certainly have had my doubts at different times along the way. I am reasonably certain that April was not the first time that this "bug" was causing the play on double up to be skewed. My peers and I had discovered this a few other times over the last couple of years. I believe this "bug" to be their "solution" to the problem and profit taking of advantaged professional players. There are/were enough of us to take a decent chunk of their profits away.

**soflat** · 8th May 2006, 07:40 PM

Our results weren't as bad as evidenced in April, but bad enough for a group of bright mathematically inclined individuals to abandon the practice of using the double up feature.

That might be something that could be looked into. How bad were your results? and when?

**Linus** · 8th May 2006, 08:00 PM

Spearmaster - English Harbour only has three options.

They can say that the trials were invalid, that there was a "bug," or they can admit cheating.

#1 has been tried and rejected. They will never ever openly admit to intentional cheating.

They've settled on the "bug" defense, and now they have to stick with it. No amount of talking or meeting with them will change that.

You may have reasons for not wanting people to say they're "cheating," but it can't have anything to do with negotiations with English Harbour.

They've placed their bets (and rolled the dice). It's too late to choose another number now.

**soflat** · 8th May 2006, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Linus

Spearmaster - English Harbour only has three options.

They can say that the trials were invalid, that there was a "bug," or they can admit cheating.

#1 has been tried and rejected. They will never ever openly admit to intentional cheating.

They've settled on the "bug" defense, and now they have to stick with it. No amount of talking or meeting with them will change that.

You may have reasons for not wanting people to say they're "cheating," but it can't have anything to do with negotiations with English Harbour.

They've placed their bets (and rolled the dice). It's too late to choose another number now.

If it was just an isolated incident that only happened two weeks during the casino's entire existence, and the casino is open about sharing its logs with the WoO for any period of time, and they explained what the bug was, then I would tend to believe it was just a bug.

Maybe they are meeting and negotiating with EH to get full audits done or something like that.

In other words, maybe they are waiting for all the evidence to be examined.

**spearmaster** · 8th May 2006, 09:07 PM

I am waiting for a technical explanation of what happened, plain and simple. If it is not forthcoming soon, there won't be much doubt in my mind as to what happened. But keep in mind that they were honest enough to give you the logs and to admit the problem even if they did muck up that first statement.

**kengam** · 8th May 2006, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by soflat

That might be something that could be looked into. How bad were your results? and when?

bad enough to be 95% confident that the results were not within reasonable range. (3.5 standard deviations)

I cannot release any statistics as I have confidential agreements with the other players involved. I am posting merely to state that this isn't the first time that the double up game was out of whack. This was also the case on no less than 4 other occasions besides this past April. If they were to release all their information regarding double up in the past 3 years, many more episodes would come to light. I do not expect this to happen.

**spearmaster** · 8th May 2006, 10:01 PM

I guess my only question is - if you had a reasonable belief (95%) that the doubling game was not fair, why didn't you come out with this data in the first place? I would've thought 95% should have been plenty good enough to raise some doubts...

**soflat** · 8th May 2006, 10:20 PM

How hard would it be to go back through the last two years of double-up stats and see if the claims of this professional bonus hunter are valid?

**kengam** · 8th May 2006, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by spearmaster

I guess my only question is - if you had a reasonable belief (95%) that the doubling game was not fair, why didn't you come out with this data in the first place? I would've thought 95% should have been plenty good enough to raise some doubts...

The old kengam would have tried as I am sure you know. The new kengam doesn't have the time or desire to fight against thieves in this industry anymore. While this event does not surprise me, a big part of me is sad and irate about it. I have been a long time supporter of the fairness of the big software providers. It has come to that time that even the mighty are tempted to increase profits and strike back at the thorn that has been in their sides since the beginning. I feel like this "bug" is a personal attack on me and people like me who have been making money off of advertised promotions (see bonus hunter). Unfortunately other "innocent" players get trapped in this snare as well.

**spearmaster** · 8th May 2006, 10:59 PM

LOL... I kinda liked the old kengam, even if we didn't always agree...

I sure hope that it doesn't turn out that the fix was deliberate... there is absolutely no need for this in the industry, and I sure as hell won't support it.

Anyhow, let's see what pans out. All I can do is try my best... as I'm sure others like Meister and Jetset will continue to do.