This 'n That about Poker

[WonderingSpirit]

Ah.. Now I get it. I never noticed that we could vote on 10 players. I thought there was 1 vote pr member

[Kenny Lingus]

Steed,

Your topic is great, opinions are good, reasoning.....fair at best.

Incuded in the 49 players you list are (along with comments - those in quotes are from Wikipedia):

Kathy Liebert: "At the 2004 World Series of Poker, Liebert won a gold bracelet in a $1,500 limit Texas hold 'em Shootout event. She was one of three women (Cyndy Violette and Annie Duke being the other two) to win an open event in that year's WSOP. Liebert also appeared on and won the series 2005 Poker Royale: Battle of the Sexes. After being eliminated from the World Speed Poker Open in London in September 2005, Kathy provided commentary on the final alongside Gary Jones. On June 1, Liebert made the final table of the $10,000 Pot-Limit Hold'em World Championship at the 2008 World Series of Poker and finished in 3rd place, earning $306,064.

As of 2009, she has one World Series of Poker (WSOP) bracelet and her total live tournament winnings exceed $5,500,000. She has won more prize money in open field tournaments than any other woman in poker history and is ranked 38th overall."

Sounds similar to Action Dan's stats. Would you have put her on this list if she was a "he"?

Doyle Brunson: Sorry, but he is nowhere near the top 10 or even 50 players in the game right now. IMO, he is a slightly overated geezer who would have a tough time being considered as good as historical reputation in today's more populated poker world. His WSOP main event wins came with fields of only 22 and 34.

Josh Arieh: "World Series of Poker Bracelets:
Year Tournament Prize (US$)
1999 $3,000 Limit Hold'em $202,800
2005 $2,000 Pot Limit Omaha $381,600

As of 2009, his total live tournament winnings exceed $4,700,000.[3] Most of his tournament winnings ($3,417,593) have come at the WSOP."

Best main event finish was 3rd in 2004.

And this qualifies him, according to your standards, how exactly?

Look, I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you aren't being consistent with your standards, at least as I can see. Anyway, good topic; it beats most of the casino talk on this site.

[rikkerbuddy]

8) Daniel Negreanu - could be the best if he'd quit talking so much

I think this dude could be a mega star and play lights out - but his mouth and stubbornness always beats him. IMO

[johnsteed]

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KennyLingus

Your topic is great, opinions are good, reasoning.....fair at best.

Hmmm... Moving on...

Look, I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you aren't being consistent with your standards, at least as I can see. Anyway, good topic; it beats most of the casino talk on this site.

Thank you Mr. Lingus for half of that! But I get the sense that you mean well in your own way.




These rankings aren't exactly perfect, I'll give you that. But I'm quite happy with my "Top-20" (not necessarily in that order), and no, Dan Harrington is not in the "Top 10". That's what you're trying to prove, wasn't it? I even said I made a few oversights. I did in fact say that I should have included Dan Harrington in the rankings, and certainly in the "Top 50". I did say that he was relevant, and still very well respected.



There are holes in the list, and our perspectives are different, but for the most part, that's what we're here to debate, and I'm very pleased that you've taken the time to write.



Yes, Josh Arieh, shouldn't be on the list actually. Not that he's a bad player or anything. I got my names confused, I meant to say Daniel Alaei (doh!). Really. Josh Arieh is not quiet, and in the caption, I stated "unnoticeable, but quietly effective". My mistake on that one.

daniel.jpg
Daniel Alaei is always undercover.

He never grabs any headlines, and he's one of those guys that has appeared on High Stakes Poker , not that anyone noticed (he looked like a terrorist in that particular set of episodes). I think he should be on the list. He's won 2 bracelets since '06, and he's a solid cash game player (so I've read). He's a very sound player, and I think at this point, he's either in his prime or just going into it. I'd put him ahead of Harrington over the past few years.



I didn't include Doyle on my personal Top 40 list. I don't think he's very good anymore, or at least he doesn't seem to care about the tournaments as much; probably because of a lack of stamina. He apparently still does well in the private cash games, but I don't know (who really does except those who work and gamble there). I included him in the voting system, because, well, HE'S DOYLE BRUNSON! I know that sounds like a cop-out, and I know that reasoning won't sit well with you, but this voting system (not my personal rankings) was more based more on people's perceptions (not necessarily truth in accuracy), so he's a recognizable player that the average fan might be tempted to choose (and surprisingly, only 4 have).



Dan Harrington is a better player than Doyle now, 2009, although historically, no way.

doyle.jpg
Texas Dolly... Yeeeee-HAAAAA!!!

That's like comparing Arnold Palmer to Lee Trevino. Trevino could certainly hold his own, make a lot of money, and he was better than Palmer later on (likely because he's younger), but not on the same plane historically.



I said in a previous post - I'm saying it for the third time - Harrington has every right to be in the rankings. I'm okay with Liebert being where she is, and I don't think I gave her the edge over Harrington because she's a she and not a he. Remember, I forgot to put Dan on this list altogether (I mentioned this previously). It was an oversight on my part. I'd also point out, that I could flip spots between most of the players, those of who are ranked after in the bottom half of my "Top 40".

Look, I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you aren't being consistent with your standards, at least as I can see.

I think Liebert and Harrington play very similar styles, or if it's not that, they both have the same mindset to go deep into tournaments, survive long enough just to make the money. A lot of the top pros don't necessary approach tournaments like that. Liebert and Harrington play more like Hellmuth-lite and slightly tighter in my opinion (if you can believe it), than compared to a Negreanu, Hansen, or an Ivey. I think that over the past few years, Liebert and Harrington aren't much different by how well they've done.



The Dan Harrington of today that you argue should be in the "Top 10" (nope) now and "Top 10 All Time" (perhaps), isn't the same Dan Harrington of pre-'04. Anyway, Harrington and Liebert are both fine players today, very steady ships, but neither one should be in the discussion as to who's in the Elite Tier of players in the game today; meaning within the "Top 10". You can find holes with who's not on the list, or where people are ranked in the bottom half, but each person will have a vastly different opinion on a pseudo-list.



So to sum it up...



Doyle vs Harrington - I'm going with Harrington, and Brunson wasn't on my "Top 40" list anyway; and I forgot to include "Action Dan" (which was an oversight).



Liebert vs Harrington - To me, it's pretty much a wash over the past 3 seasons. I'm not saying that Mr. Lingus is wrong, because (seeing as I forgot to include Harrington) I would likely have had him ranked higher by 1 or 2 spots, not much more, which really isn't much of a difference as it would be between Phil Ivey and the next best player.



Arieh vs Harrington - I'd certainly take Harrington over Arieh, who's taken 2-3 steps back over the past few seasons. AND, I didn't mean to include Arieh, as I always confuse his name (not him) with Daniel Alaei's name. Daniel Alaei was the person I meant to have ranked 26th, and I'm okay with that. That was my mistake on that one...



I'm curious Mr. Lingus, who would you rank as being the "Top 10 All-Time Greatest Poker Players"? The only stipulation being that any living player has to have played for at least 10 years already, and dead guys can be included as well (of course). So the infamous Durrr can't be included.



I love the feedback Mr. Lingus (and the debate), and everyone else.




Steed


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[NASHVEGAS]

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I'm curious Mr. Lingus, who would you rank as being the "Top 10 All-Time Greatest Poker Players"?:

Steed
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Great question and as I think about it I am actually more familiar with "the old school" long before the WSOP et al became a household name per se.

Poker was very popular in the 70's even in the illegal Bible Belt (not Bibles nor belts). All the local country clubs had regular games twice a week for years. My pop must have thought he was attending church/synagogue ,lol, as he never missed a Sunday, poker game that is

The above games were a little different than when on occasion my father would travel to the other side of town (a metaphor) and played in a game that included Pug Pearson. I remember once the game lasted 6 days or at least I did not see my father for 6 days. FYI, that game always had a strict code of silence as I can only assume the reasons and poker was not a family dinner discussion topic anyway but pursuant to that/those game(s) even as a teenager, I somehow knew not to ask any questions but I knew much about Pug Pearson Who (see below) and Why (see above and below)???

My first memory of the WSOP was the showdown between Amarillo Slim and Pug Pearson who I believe has 4 bracelets (probably in the top 10, yes one could argue he wouldn't be in the top 10 if he played in today's era on account of "This 'n That" with today's much larger number of participants being an example but that logic may be flawed). Slim and Pearson, were both "old school" characters who were as good as it gets. Both worthy of all time TOP 10 consideration. JMVSO!!

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In other local news (although Memphis has thrown me a curveball if the former bookkeeper of my favorite watering-hole for years, The Boundry , has moved to Memphis but regardless he still owns a modest home in Brentwood).

Moneymaker Leads World Poker Open Final Table, Chad Brown 2nd
by PokerPages.com
Tue, Aug 11th, 2009 @ 12:00am

http://www.pokerpages.com/poker-news...-2nd-31854.htm

SIDENOTE:link has a lot of good info.(but many other good sites also) like number of bracelets won but the info. may not be current/up to date. Glanced at only