Interesting Article from Cnet, Another way to cheat

**bb28** · 26th April 2009, 09:17 PM

For the complete story http://news.cnet.com/security/?tag=hdr;snav but here is the excerpt concerning poker. This is the first I've heard of this, anyone else?

"Last up was Avi Rubin, a professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins. He talked, also relatively briefly, about how easy it is for some cheaters to exploit the game of online poker.
Essentially, Rubin argued, a hack called a Sybil attack--which employs fake people participating in games--makes it possible for online poker players to gain a big advantage over their opponents. That works, he said, by making it possible for a single player to control multiple hands in a game, allowing that person to see more cards than they would otherwise, and get a better handle on the odds of their own hand.
For example, he said, in a game of Texas Hold'em, a player employing a Sybil attack on an online poker game could control multiple hands and see things like whether the fives or eights they need to complete a full house and beat an opposing player's flush had already been played.
Rubin's point, then, was that game operators need to work harder at identity management, in order to keep players from employing such exploits. He didn't, however, offer any solutions as to how to do that.
All told, the panelists made it clear that just about any kind of online game or virtual world--especially those where money is on the line--is subject to some kind of hack or exploit, and that for those with the skills to launch such attacks, the barriers stopping them are easily surmountable.
The lesson, then, is that publishers of such games need to think harder about how to manage their players' actions and expectations. Otherwise, players may find themselves in games that are so compromised that the economies collapse and the fun disappears."

**mussy** · 27th April 2009, 02:01 AM

Is he not just talking about multiaccounting, and making it sound new? I've only read the bit you quote, though; I'm playing at the moment and don't have time to read the whole thing.

**lots0** · 27th April 2009, 02:12 AM

...a hack called a Sybil attack

Sounds to me like he is describing playing with Bots.
Never heard it called a "sybil" attack before, but I guess the name makes sense.
It's not a 'hack' it is a software program.

Most all good poker rooms.. only allow their own bots to play...

Just kidding...

The poker rooms have software programs to watch for bot/programmed play, they will all ban you quick if they catch you.

**mussy** · 27th April 2009, 02:27 AM

Okay, I missed the 'hack' reference. It seems to be something to do with this wiki piece here. I can't see how it would work with poker, although I haven't found time to read the wiki piece carefully yet.

**4 of a kind** · 27th April 2009, 02:32 AM

This is very similar to professional collusion teams. I actually new a member of a team from one of the local poker clubs I play at. He would never tell me his online name or where they played. Over time we became closer and he did however explain how it works.
They have like nine team players. They are very careful on how they exploit cash games, fearing detection. They will get at least 4 team players on a cash table at once. They all communicate via computer with head sets. The five other team players are also watching the game from the rail. They all share each others cards giving them huge advantages on odds, and plots. They will even play against each other for appearance only, making sure they never dump to each other. If a team member loses his roll, he either re-buys or leaves the table for another member to take his place. If a certain player is winning to much, they get him replaced also.
They play almost all medium level games, occasionally higher stakes, but never visit the big boys.
Very rare they have losing sessions, and said they average any where from 100.00 to 300.00 per player, per week. They treat this as a part time job.
The bot you speak of in O.P. sounds like the user would need several multiple accounts, and that is becoming an easy detection.

**4 of a kind** · 27th April 2009, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by lots0

The poker rooms have software programs to watch for bot/programmed play, they will all ban you quick if they catch you.

Yes they do have software protection in place to detect bots. But that's only a problem for rookie bot user's. Pro bot use's are using two different computers, and the defensive software can only read the hard drive that the ip address is connected to.

**pokeraddict** · 27th April 2009, 02:48 AM

This is BS. If you play at a poker room of any size and are always with the sa,me players they will bust you. If you go and create a bunch of gnomes to pull this off with they will bust you. How do you cash out? How do you fund all of these gnome accounts? Let's say it is a bunch of players from all over the world. Yes it is possible but OTOH PS and FTP have uncovered many things people have tried to pull. Also does knowing a couple of other hands at a table give you that much of an advantage? I don't see the value in cheating this way. Gain a very small advantage and get all of your money confiscated.

**4 of a kind** · 27th April 2009, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by pokeraddict

This is BS. If you play at a poker room of any size and are always with the sa,me players they will bust you. If you go and create a bunch of gnomes to pull this off with they will bust you. How do you cash out? How do you fund all of these gnome accounts? Let's say it is a bunch of players from all over the world. Yes it is possible but OTOH PS and FTP have uncovered many things people have tried to pull. Also does knowing a couple of other hands at a table give you that much of an advantage? I don't see the value in cheating this way. Gain a very small advantage and get all of your money confiscated.

I agree with you here, yet, this is what he told me. The reward seems to be rather small, if in fact even true. Not sure why he would make up such a story. This pr___ is also no spring chicken. But you could be certain that collusion is taking place in one form or another... I certainly wouldn't want to be playing a game with four guys sharing cards and plotting strategies to gain my chips.

**bb28** · 27th April 2009, 03:32 AM

A little interesting tidbit, the name sybil attack comes from the famous woman who had 16 different personalities.
I've been reading up on this but I'm still not clear if they are referring to a bot program or people using multiple accounts.