Your move ?

[hushda24]

Heres an intresting hand from earlier on, No info on players as only just joined that table,Its a 6 seater nl 10/20 cents,So yes can be a donkfest aswell I post end of hand up later,WHATS YOUR MOVE HERE ?
** Hand # 2305646485 starting - 2008-12-09 11:52:32
** Osterley [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with $19.30
Kalabio11 sitting in seat 2 with $5.83
qjet sitting in seat 3 with $24.82
kristina41 sitting in seat 4 with $17.45
nojodas sitting in seat 5 with $18.47[Dealer]
joel1988 sitting in seat 6 with $28.35
joel1988 posted the small blind - $0.10
thumperabbit posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: 2d, 6h
Kalabio11 folded
qjet folded
kristina41 called - $0.20
nojodas called - $0.20
joel1988 folded
thumperabbit checked

** Dealing the flop: Jh, 3d, 6d
thumperabbit checked
kristina41 checked
nojodas bet - $0.20
thumperabbit called - $0.20
kristina41 folded

** Dealing the turn: 6c
thumperabbit checked
nojodas bet - $1.10
thumperabbit raised to $2.20
nojodas raised to $7.70

[hushda24]

Heres another. I love playing trichard as hes a very big fish and just loves his gutshot draws Now i hate my call on turn, To be honest i knew i was in trouble with him leading out of postion after flat calling flop. I only called to try to fish him back,And after seeing that brick for me on river i logged straight out,As i knew i was being dragged down to his level with that terrible turn call. This is where i beleive is my strongest point at poker is,Having a break after a dumb move. It stops you tilting and i am now rareing to go back and hit him HARD ** Hand # 2305966166 starting - 2008-12-09 16:42:25
** Dumb Struck [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

The_Tick sitting in seat 1 with $11.44
trichard sitting in seat 2 with $57.96
thumperabbit sitting in seat 3 with $40.96
synaaa sitting in seat 4 with $28.77
DeCraene sitting in seat 5 with $20.00
kangshifu sitting in seat 6 with $17.31[Dealer]
The_Tick posted the small blind - $0.10
trichard posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ac, Ad
thumperabbit raised to $0.80
synaaa folded
kangshifu folded
The_Tick folded
trichard called - $0.80

** Dealing the flop: 3c, 10h, Qh
trichard checked
thumperabbit bet - $1.20
trichard called - $1.20

** Dealing the turn: Kd
trichard bet - $3.20
thumperabbit called - $3.20

** Dealing the river: Kh
trichard bet - $7.60
thumperabbit folded
trichard mucks:
trichard wins $17.58 from the main pot

[hushda24]

And heres a tip for you all, We all have wondered what the hell they went allin with at some point ? They muck cards so you dont get to see there hand. No worries just go in to your hand history and it will show there mucked hand like this 1
** Hand # 2305944152 starting - 2008-12-09 16:28:54
** Dumb Struck [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

The_Tick sitting in seat 1 with $10.41[Dealer]
trichard sitting in seat 2 with $57.52
thumperabbit sitting in seat 3 with $29.55
synaaa sitting in seat 4 with $23.05
wwddcc13 sitting in seat 5 with $14.18
kangshifu sitting in seat 6 with $18.90
trichard posted the small blind - $0.10
thumperabbit posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Kh, Kc
synaaa folded
wwddcc13 called - $0.20
kangshifu folded
The_Tick called - $0.20
trichard folded
thumperabbit bet - $1.60
wwddcc13 raised to $6.20
The_Tick folded
thumperabbit raised to $20.00
wwddcc13 went all-in - $7.98

** Dealing the flop: Js, 2c, 4s

** Dealing the turn: 5s

** Dealing the river: 6h
thumperabbit shows: Kh, Kc
wwddcc13 mucks: Ah, Kd
thumperabbit wins $27.23 from the main pot

[NextToYou]

In the first hand push turn.

[hushda24]

In the first hand push turn.

Your pushing allin on trips with 2 kicker ? Tell me why you think this ? I min reraised him on turn to represent strength and he repops me back ? Now the 6 doesnt worry him ? I put him on a6 . Please tell me more.

[DogBoy001]

Your pushing allin on trips with 2 kicker ? Tell me why you think this ? I min reraised him on turn to represent strength and he repops me back ? Now the 6 doesnt worry him ? I put him on a6 . Please tell me more.

I'd say A6 is a good bet at that point, personally on the re-raise you'd have to give him the other 6 and abandon ship (unless you'd been playing at the table for a while and he was donkey kong)

Woooof

[pokeraddict]

In the first one the flop is an easy fold IMO so you shouldn't have this bad decision on the turn. In the second one you fold or shove the turn. Calling there is bad. Make him commit. If you feel bad enough to call there with 4 outs if you are behind then you should fold. I don't guess you're asking about the third one.

[hushda24]

In the first one the flop is an easy fold IMO so you shouldn't have this bad decision on the turn. In the second one you fold or shove the turn. Calling there is bad. Make him commit. If you feel bad enough to call there with 4 outs if you are behind then you should fold. I don't guess you're asking about the third one.

Yep your quite correct on that 1st point. And as i said about the second one,He loves his gutshot draws etc.. He dont bluff much either,As i said i got dragged down to his level on thinking wise,Which is why i took a break staraight after that hand. heres the rest of hand one
thumperabbit folded
nojodas mucks:
nojodas wins $10.73 from the main pot
I said in chat i had 62,He adds good fold. He dont say what he had tho. a6 is defo my bet.

[hushda24]

In hand two what do we all put my gutshot freind on ? kq ? or even flush drawing ? or his famous gutshots lol

[NextToYou]

I could never ever drop trips there on turn at NL20. If he has 33 or A6 then so be it and it's reload time. Against his whole range you are good more than needed 4/10 times or so. And remember that sometimes it is totally OK to lose a buy-in if both have monster hands.

If you drop trips there for 80 big blinds you will get pushed around a ton and you will lose way too much in non-showdown pots. That kind of playing style is called "weak-tight" style of play, which is typical to micro-small stakes cash players and is very exploitable by skilled, very aggressive but in the same time thinking players, who understand the value of folding equity.

Now think of a situation that you told him that you folded 62 there to his re-raise on turn. Now let's say he's a skilled, thinking player (like me ). Now he knows that you will drop trips (which is a HUGE hand) with bad kicker to a re-raise on turn. OK, let's play on with keeping this in mind...

Now think is it profitablefor him to re-raise you with any hand (no pair, no draw hands even) from now on on turn to your raise, if and when he knows that you will lay down even trips to that move? The answer is YES, it is very profitable for him to do that! Let say that 1/10 times about you have a slowplayed set of threes or sixes there and 9/10 times you hold that K6 or worse trips (or somethink like top pair wioth a good kicker) you will lay down to his re-raise. Now 1/10 times he will lose his invested $8.10 re-raising ANY hand on turn there when you call (as a bluff, because he knows you lay down too many hands to that move) and 9/10 times his bluff goes through and he wins your already invested $2.60 because you fold even a very big hand to a re-raise.

Now let's count which one of you makes more money out of each other with your style to play in the long run, shall we?

He makes 9*$2.60 + 1*(-$8.10) = +$15.30

You make 1*$8.10 - 9*(-$2.60) = -$15.30

And when you continue to play for years, after 100 hands he has made +$153 with his "crazy donkey bluffer" style and you have made -$153 with your "better safe than sorry" style. Pretty surprising numbers, huh?


I think I don't need to say much more? Those 1/10 and 9/10 times are very rough mathematical estimates of the times the hands described will occur (1/10 times you will have A6 or better hand which you'd push there instead of folding if you really put him only on A6 or better there).

I have just written a very brief introduction to a concept of folding equity in poker and how good players know how to use it as their advantage in the long run to profit, even though once in a while they get caught with a (stupid looking) bluff and they get berated here on the forums as donkeys. In the inside thay laugh with nice winnings in their back pocket.