Will new 'independent' poker sites ever get a large enough player base?

**Buddy** · 28th July 2006, 01:34 AM

PKR are apparently going to launch real money play shortly (I'm not entirely sure what their definition of 'shortly' is, but for obvious reasons I hope its sometime soon .)

I'd be interested to hear if you think it will be a success. I've been playing a few other new 'independent' poker sites and notice that there are hardly any players at the tables, which is a real real turn off.

I can see now why so many gaming companies join a network like Prima (Microgaming) or Tribecca.

What do you think?

**winbig** · 28th July 2006, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Buddy

PKR are apparently going to launch real money play shortly (I'm not entirely sure what their definition of 'shortly' is, but for obvious reasons I hope its sometime soon .)

I'd be interested to hear if you think it will be a success. I've been playing a few other new 'independent' poker sites and notice that there are hardly any players at the tables, which is a real real turn off.

I can see now why so many gaming companies join a network like Prima (Microgaming) or Tribecca.

What do you think?

Unless they fix the compatability issues with ATI cards before they open, they're going to fail miserably.

Other than that, I love the concept of it, and think they'll turn out to be a good room - As long as they have good customer service and offer some sort of rakeback program or other good loyalty system.

**Buddy** · 28th July 2006, 09:32 AM

Yes they do have some real technical issues. I'm not sure how easy it is to sort them out.

I think any poker site needs a constant 24 hour player base of between 4000 - 6000 players to ensure there are enough players and action at the various tables. Technical issues aside, that's a lot for a single independent site like PKR, that's not part of a poker network.

In terms of loyalty, I believe they will have loyalty points which can be traded in for chip tricks and other features to customise players features.

**pokeraddict** · 28th July 2006, 10:36 AM

I am of the opinion that Full Tilt will be the last successful start up. They have been open for 2+ years and no one has been very successful since and I doubt anyone can repeat that success. It took having a massive pro player base and advertising campaign. I have seen some decent ideas but after a few start up disasters many players will not even give new rooms a shot no matter how great the bonus is.

**Chatmaster** · 28th July 2006, 11:12 AM

One thing is for sure... The competition is really tough in the online poker networks, newcomers really need to spend some money to make some. I believe it is really tough these days to compete. However, if I had the budget I would not go for networks. There is to many restrictions on how the games are played, the type of games available and marketing options. the only benefit that you have is that there are consistently players available and large tourneys. To the player however the only difference is in the amount of money he gets for free from the poker room or the service delivery. This means allot of overheads for a newcomer to carry. However to be able to enter the poker market I guess you need to be able to market using innovative ideas, lateral thinking and offer something unique and that is where the networks fail miserably to help newcomers.

**Buddy** · 28th July 2006, 11:14 AM

To some extent I'd agree. But surely Mansion are doing ok? They only started their poker site earlier this year and appear to have a number of players.

Their Pokerdome freerolls fill up quickly, and they seem to have, as we say in the UK, "loadsamoney".

**Chatmaster** · 28th July 2006, 11:38 AM

That is exactly what makes it so expensive, you cannot give a hint of how little profit you are actually making as no player would want to play with a struggling outfit. I personally would much rather grow a small poker room from scratch in my local town and put away money for the big launch countrywide or statewide, then grow it from there. Reduce the risk of loosing millions of $!

**jetset** · 28th July 2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Buddy

To some extent I'd agree. But surely Mansion are doing ok? They only started their poker site earlier this year and appear to have a number of players.

Their Pokerdome freerolls fill up quickly, and they seem to have, as we say in the UK, "loadsamoney".

Interesting thread.

In answer to the above:

1) Cross marketing

2) Well capitalised.

**Chatmaster** · 28th July 2006, 11:51 AM

A major concern is the posibility of fraud and also security for your players. You have to have a good system to ensure the safety of your players all the time. I am familiar with the Prima network with regards to this and have always been amazed on the technology they have as well as the amount of fraud attempts there are. That is one HUGE benefit a Network can give to a new poker room.

**Buddy** · 28th July 2006, 12:32 PM

Poker networks definitely do have some considerable advantages.

However, the common biggest problem online gaming companies are facing that use them is the issue of having a "common wallet" (i.e a single sign on account for all their products). The network poker sites I've played often require a completely seperate logon name than they do for their casino product. That's a major problem for any cross-selling in my opinion.

While I'm on the subject of new poker sites and poker networks, the following article on my site may also be of interest - http://www.3dpokerreviews.com/Pokerwize.htm (apologies if it appears I'm plugging my own site here, but it does make very interesting information given the context of the conversation).

My question in relation to this article - Pokerwize - is it technically possible to connect a 3D site into a 2D Prima network? Will the Prima network actually give the technical support and assistence that will be required?