Cheaters Being Outed by Poker Sites.....

[jetset]

Good posts, Managra and Winbig. This underage thing is worrying and I think you're probably right - there's bound to be some tightening up in the wake of these incidents, and that is possibly going to impact on the genuine players.

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by paul02085

This could have major repercussions on the Internet Gambling bill being discussed in US especially since one of the 2 kids is only 16 years old!! Not good i am afraid.

That would be guy with the account for his grandmother, wouldn't it? He should have a fine career in white collar crime ahead of him.

I am not impressed by the poker room's failure to verify his age or to spot that several people were playing from the same IP address. Does anyone know what's going to happen to the money confiscated from these cheaters?

[winbig]

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

I am not impressed by the poker room's failure to verify his age or to spot that several people were playing from the same IP address. Does anyone know what's going to happen to the money confiscated from these cheaters?

I doubt they were dumb enough to play from the same IP address. I'm assuming they used proxies from the area they registered in to connect to the sites. Even so, how in the world did they cash out? Fake ID's? Maybe they used friend's addresses that were in on it for a cut of the profits.

If the one was 16, how in the world did he deposit? I'm sure you can get a checking account if you're under 18, but cannot legally get a credit card. If that's the case, I would assume the credit card company would be contacting the poker room(s) for their money back. If it was his parents card, same solution.

oops, I forgot about the prepaid credit cards. If he (and others) abuse it like this, we can kiss this method of depositing goodbye in the near future.

[managra]

Originally Posted by winbig72

Being realistic though, I doubt there will be any "Internet Police" preventing online gambling in the USA. There are some states that already have laws in place against gambling online, but I have never heard of anyone getting arrested for it.

What the proposed legislation is aiming at is making it impossible to deposit. Right now, Americans cannot use credit cards for online gambling. They intend to make it impossible to deposit via the likes of Neteller. If such legislation would pass, the online gambling world undoubtedly would devise workarounds. But until then it would be hard to gamble online and our basic freedoms are being restricted.

[sweetdenny]

Just picked up on your question about what will happen to this money that was confiscated. Simple answer is that the site will keep it there is no way that it will be returned to players who were cheated out of this money. I have had money confiscated by prima and trying to get a reply on what happens to the money was extremely difficult. It will be interseting to see what this major site does with this money i believe it will be kept by the site. I can understand that to distibute it to all of the people that it was won/cheated from. I cannot see how playign 6 ids in multi tournaments would have netted him that amount and it was more likely he was hitting the cash tables controlling half the table and accumulating it that way. It is not fair or just for the site to keep the confiscated funds and they should either run a freeroll with that as the prize fund so the money goes back to the players or donate it to a charity. If they are not going to do either of these things they should return it to the player who defrauded it i know they acted dishonestly and are cheats but i would rather the money went to them than the site keeping it.

[jetset]

From m y reading of that big thread, it seemed to me that the confiscated monies were the prizes in the tourney, and that this was then given to the second placed guy with all other prizewinners bumped up one in terms of reward.

Perhaps I interpreted that incorrectly?

[sweetdenny]

From reading the very large post as well it seems to be that all his money was confiscated and in Justins statement he has said that most of the money was won from stts. He was a high stakes player who created new accounts so people wouldnt know who he was and he could use this to his advantage. He states that he didnt collude by using his multiple accounts if this is the case i believe he should get to keep his money but this is unlikely to happen. Also he states that he knew what he was doing was unethical so why he had that much money sitting in his account at one time i do not know. Im sure this will have hurt him but if he was being as succesfull as is being stated his cashouts should more than be enough to help him get over his loss. There are a lot more chetas out there getting away with a lot worse. All the posters over there have been very quick to slate his actions even though they have never been affected by him. I often wonder how many would have the same morals if they were in his position and had the chance to rake in 100k a week. People are often to quick to judge and say it is un sportsmanlike but i believe the majority of these posters would do exactly the same. Please but yourself in his shoes before making your judgements.

[largeeyes]

Your post about not being stupid enough to use different IPs was actually incorrect. Buried god knows how many posts in there, he describes how he could open multiple clients if he clicked fast enough. So yes, every one of the logins was the same IP. Unbelievable someone would be that careless with that sort of money.

[paul02085]

Originally Posted by sweetdenny

From reading the very large post as well it seems to be that all his money was confiscated and in Justins statement he has said that most of the money was won from stts. He was a high stakes player who created new accounts so people wouldnt know who he was and he could use this to his advantage. He states that he didnt collude by using his multiple accounts if this is the case i believe he should get to keep his money but this is unlikely to happen. Also he states that he knew what he was doing was unethical so why he had that much money sitting in his account at one time i do not know. Im sure this will have hurt him but if he was being as succesfull as is being stated his cashouts should more than be enough to help him get over his loss. There are a lot more chetas out there getting away with a lot worse. All the posters over there have been very quick to slate his actions even though they have never been affected by him. I often wonder how many would have the same morals if they were in his position and had the chance to rake in 100k a week. People are often to quick to judge and say it is un sportsmanlike but i believe the majority of these posters would do exactly the same. Please but yourself in his shoes before making your judgements.

ZJ was found to be playing 6 buyins in a large multi table tournament and he admitted to doing it. He also said he knows "friends" who play 10 buyins in a single tournament. Wonder what else him and his "friends" do?

You say people are all over him even though they have not been affected by him? How do you know that? Did he tell you? Did you believe him?

This is nothing but cheating. There may be other ways and maybe better ways to cheat but it is cheating none the less. Rating the quality of the cheating by saying "There are alot more chetas out there getting away with alot worse" is really laughable.

The fact is that Party Poker has a rule that says if you get caught playing with multiple accounts you will have your account closed and all funds seized. Zee Justin knew this and now he pays the price.

The really sad part is it will hurt online poker.

[sweetdenny]

__________________
Firstly the ten buy in issue if people enter into a multi tournament with a field size of over 1k whichwe are talking about here the advantage gained is minimal. It is the same as ten good players entering the same tournament the advantage only comes into effect when the player gets seated at the same table and colludes to gain an advantage justin has stated when this happened he did not collude the poker room reviewing the hands in question would be able to determine if this were true or not. Until it is proven that he colluded ie we see the hand history im sure justin would post this if he were not locked out his account. If the poker room releases this information and can prove he was using this position to his advantage then this is a whole other matter. But do you think the poker room will post the hand history or allow justin acces to this so he can prove his case i think not .

Secondly the point about people being all over him just read all the posts over on the other forum justin was a high stakes player are you trying to tell me the 100 plus posts are from high stakes players again i think not. If you can tell me this is the case then i will withdraw my point and apologise for getting it wrong. But i will expect you to prove to me that the majority of the players posting are people entering 500 sit n gos and entering the 500 sunday multi regualrly. I think you will find that the majority of the posters are low and medium limit players who will not have had the opportunity to make thousands of pounds a day by breaking the rule. I also know for a fact that some of the posters slating him have not even played a cash game online. Yet the still feel able ot judge him.

Also justin has never denied he didnt know there was a risk involved however the sites confiscating his money all in one go is not on. The sites knew about it previously and allowed it to carry on without takign any action (they only took action once was brought up on forums) or even issuing a warning is wrong also.

You say this will hurt online poker this is laughable as you put it. If anything this will only help online poker as it has rasied player awairness of this happening and therefore players will report more issues helping the rooms to stamp it out. Secondly it will hopfully force the rooms into being stricter with there sign up procedure again this is good keeping children out and promoting safer gaming. Aslo by putting the id checks in before allwoing people signing up will speed up the withdrawal time which again is good for online gaming.

Therefore could you please explain exactly how this high profile case of a cheater being exposed in public has been bad for online gaming.