Bitch and Moan ClubWorld SPAM Again !!

[winbig]

Originally Posted by CWC-Martyn

Unfortunately this is something that you should take up with Communicator.

You're missing the point; but if CWC wants to be associated with a company that allows spammers to run freely on their service, by all means, go for it.

At the very least, CWC should be concerned that all of their mailings are going straight to most people's spam/trash/junk folders simply because it's being sent from the c-f-1.com servers.

[spearmaster]

Actually, Martyn, that's something ClubWorld should take up with Communicator - it's CWC's emails that are being tagged as spam because they come from Communicator's servers, rather than the player's spam filters detecting spam because they caught some wording in the email.

If Communicator cannot prevent other customers from getting the servers put on the RBL - CWC should find another supplier.

[CWC-Martyn]

Ok fair point i'll raise it with the boss

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by WC-Martyn

Can you confirm where you sent it and when please, I have not received anything from you with regards to this.





As you say c-f-1.com is the URL used for the Communicator brand. They offer a bulk mailing solution which is used, no doubt by many thousands of companies in all kinds of sectors for all kinds of products. As we have also seen, slammers also use this brand and no doubt others in order to get their mails sent.

So in short, Communicator is a commercially available 3RD party product/software that is licenced by others to make use of their mailing technology.



Same here, this happens with me also. For the record though, we do not share or sell on any data given to us when a player signs up. In my line of work I get offered databases for all kinds of lists player and affiliate lists, we never take up these offers. Unfortunately there are a few out there that abuse their position and take data for the sole purpose to sell it on or to spam it before selling it on.



I would love to see these so that I can do something about them. Preferably before pay day if possible.

If you are referring to US not doing enough about it I would have to disagree with you based on the fact that we are stamping it out - slowly but surely we are getting on top of it. For you its a simple open and shut case, I didnt request it therefore its spam. For us it's a different case entirely, being an affiliate I am sure you realise that. I cant just shut down an affiliate account and refuse earnings based on one or two complaints. It needs to be looked into thoroughly, evidence gathered and collated before any action can be taken.

I did this not to many moons ago with the help of a member here, they received the same email from "us" to a number of their own personal email addresses. Working with this player we figured out who it was and I was able to shut down the aff account after no response from the affiliates contact details. As far as I know this affiliate is no longer operating with us.

The other thing is just because you don't see that things are getting done doesn't mean that the issue is being ignored. Again, I think you know this viewing it from both sides, as a player and having knowledge of how the affiliate side works.

So to conclude, I would like you to mail me the spam you received to martyn at cwcaffiliates.com (I dont want my address harvested now! ) so I can attempt to do something about it. Hopefully YOU and other players will then see that WE ARE doing something about it![/QUOTE]

This is not my definition, this is the LEGAL definition of spam. I didn't request it, therefore you have broken the law by sending it.

If I didn't request it, it CANNOT be "double opt-in" by ANYONE'S definition.

If a PLAYER makes even the most minor mistake, their account often gets locked, they can face trouble getting paid, or even not get paid at all.

If an affiliate does this, it's "kid gloves", you bend over backwards to help them before taking sanctions. Often they don't need "help", they know full well what they did, they are "chancers", weighing up the small risk of getting caught against the possible benefits of making money quickly.

Recipients are NOT the ones to take it up with Communicator Corporation, YOU have the contract with them for your mailers, and it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your subcontractors behave in an ethical manner.
Apart from this, recipients do not even know how to contact them, this is something YOU know.
YOU do not sell our email addresses, but you DO give them to Communicator Corporation in order for them to send out your mailers. Can you swear 100% that Communicator Corporation do NOT sell or pass these on, and NEVER use email addresses supplied by you as recipient lists for work they do for other parties.

To most, the part Communicator Corporation plays in this is over their heads, all THEY see is a Club World spam email, and assume it is from you.

Affiliates are effectively employees, but on a commission only basis. In law your company is responsible for the behaviour of these affiliates as commission only salesmen, This principle has been established in the UK with heavy fines levied on energy companies, not for THEIR behaviour, but for failing to police the behaviour of third party companies contracted to provide sales teams to sell energy company switching to customers.

Club World has offices here in the UK, and so a complaint made to the UK authorities could be investigated, and the holding company behind Club World casinos held to account, even though the casino servers themselves are not operating under UK licenses.

Online casinos are now mainstream in the UK, most people see the TV adverts and the poster adverts above the urinals at motorway services (I bet most casino marketing departments have no idea THIS is where their posters get put).

SPAM is pollution, it is bad enough that rogues and criminals use it, but it is worse when it is used, albeit at arms length, by reputable companies as well.
Reputable casinos will bear the brunt of player complaints, even though they are not the worst offenders. This is because players feel there is a chance of getting something done about it, whereas complaining to the rogues is fruitless.
Because of SPAM, genuine emails fail to get through, and this can have serious consequences. Take an example, player makes a withdrawal, and gets sent a request for documentation. Unfortunately, it is not from the normal support address, so goes to his spam folder. Player thinks he is getting ignored, and eventually calls out the casino publicly, maybe pitches a bitch. After the casino's name is associated with poor service, it turns out to be a problem with spam filters, something we would NOT have to put up with if there was no spam.

[zebedy]

Originally Posted by CWC-Martyn

If you are referring to US not doing enough about it I would have to disagree with you based on the fact that we are stamping it out - slowly but surely we are getting on top of it. For you its a simple open and shut case, I didnt request it therefore its spam. For us it's a different case entirely, being an affiliate I am sure you realise that. I cant just shut down an affiliate account and refuse earnings based on one or two complaints. It needs to be looked into thoroughly, evidence gathered and collated before any action can be taken.

I did this not to many moons ago with the help of a member here, they received the same email from "us" to a number of their own personal email addresses. Working with this player we figured out who it was and I was able to shut down the aff account after no response from the affiliates contact details. As far as I know this affiliate is no longer operating with us.

The other thing is just because you don't see that things are getting done doesn't mean that the issue is being ignored. Again, I think you know this viewing it from both sides, as a player and having knowledge of how the affiliate side works.

!

hi martyn,
i believe the affiliate account you shut down is still sending me spam,
if i click on the link the following comes up,

http://www1.detailcasino.com/lrc2/

(no idea what that means) then it changes to,

http://www.luckyredcasino.com/Default.aspx?affid=486

you said you didn't get a response fron the affiliate and have shut his account down, so it looks like he is just ignoring you and saying FU ill keep spamming if i want to, even though he/she isn't getting any benefit in doing so

maybe you can put all the affiliates details in this thread as a warning message to spammers, that if they dont do as they are told they will be publically named and shamed,

and/or send a warning message to other affiliate managers not to work with this affiliate, as they seem to have ignored you altogether
maybe that will help to put a stop to it ?

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by zebedy

hi martyn,
i believe the affiliate account you shut down is still sending me spam,
if i click on the link the following comes up,

(no idea what that means) then it changes to,



you said you didn't get a response fron the affiliate and have shut his account down, so it looks like he is just ignoring you and saying FU ill keep spamming if i want to, even though he/she isn't getting any benefit in doing so

maybe you can put all the affiliates details in this thread as a warning message to spammers, that if they dont do as they are told they will be publically named and shamed,

and/or send a warning message to other affiliate managers not to work with this affiliate, as they seem to have ignored you altogether
maybe that will help to put a stop to it ?

This affiliate may think Club World affy program is bluffing, after all, spammers have often had it easy, and managed to talk their way out of this kind of thing in the past. They may only realise they really have had their affy account shut down is when their payments for June never turn up.

Naming & shaming on the forum is a problem, since unless such action is spelt out in the terms of the affiliate agreement, Club World's program could be in breach of privacy laws. They COULD however use a "blacklist" of such affiliates in the same way credit reference agencies keep a credit history on us. It would not be a blacklist as such, but would record affiliates who have histories of spamming, misrepresentation, persistent breaches of program terms, and of course, affiliate fraud.