ClubWorld SPAM Again !!

[spiderlegz]

you will have to ask martyn about that, im just reporting on what happened to the affiliate thats been spamming me,account closed,end of story, im sure another few will pop up in his place, he made a valid point in a PM he sent me about taking further action against a spammer,



at least they are trying to do something about it

Not quite sure about that. Of course when you report they have to do something.

For example I have never received spam from the 3 casinos I currently play at; Ladbrokes, Intercasino and 32Red. I dont think that I have got any spam from any Wagerworks casinos either and there are a few reputable Playtechs that fits into the same category.

Spammers bring in $ and thats why most casinos dont take action against them until they are forced to.

[lots0]

After Martyn's post over at gpwa about "Haters" (he was talking about us here at CM and I believe this thread in particular) I don't believe he is going to be willing to do anything about Spammers...

[Pinababy69]

After Martyn's post over at gpwa about "Haters" (he was talking about us here at CM and I believe this thread in particular) I don't believe he is going to be willing to do anything about Spammers...

Wow, was that thread ever an eye opening experience in more ways than one.

Haters? Yeah, I hate affiliates who spam continuously, and never have to suffer any consequences. And I'm starting to hate affiliate managers and managers who can take the time to start and post in a six page thread about how sick they are of being "hated", yet they can't take five minutes to post HERE in answer to all this spam. Nor can they be bothered answering PM's or emails in regards to the same issue.

The only ones who made decent posts in that thread are KK...who said that maybe the reason players and affiliates bitch all the time is because there are so many things to bitch ABOUT...so many things wrong with this industry. And Rob, who made a great post just now, basically saying the same thing I said above. So ClubWorld, instead of playing nice with your "moneymakers" over at the GPWA, how about addressing this spam issue that has been ongoing for months now. And how about shutting down the accounts of affiliates who insist on spamming? You know, the same way that casinos shut down player accounts in the blink of an eye, if a player is even "suspected" of any shady behaviour.

Thanks Lots0 for pointing that thread out. Like I said, eye opening (was surprised at a couple of the names/posts) and enough to piss me off for sure.

I think it's getting near time to just close any accounts I have with ClubWorld and any of their affiliated sites. I got more Lucky Red spam the other day....it's obviously not going to end anytime soon.

[CWC-Martyn]

Hi all, sorry that this hasn't been responded to. I was pointed in this direction from another forum.

I'll try answer your posts below....

So apparently CWC paid this affiliate for last month? This spam has been going on since last month, so.........................

Would love to know where this notion came from? Based on the emails that have been brought to my attention 2 seperate affiliate accounts have been suspended and commissions withheld, but if you know otherwise....?

Not quite sure about that. Of course when you report they have to do something.

....

Spammers bring in $ and thats why most casinos dont take action against them until they are forced to.

If it's not reported how does anyone know its going on?

I also refer to my statement above regards banning 2 affiliates due to this spam.

After Martyn's post over at gpwa about "Haters" (he was talking about us here at CM and I believe this thread in particular)

I think you need to re-read the thread lots0, it was not aimed anywhere, at anyone or at any thread in particular...namely this one.

I don't believe he is going to be willing to do anything about Spammers...

Really, how do you come to this conclusion? Even after banning the 2 seperate offending affiliates in this case am I really still unwilling to help out??

Wow, was that thread ever an eye opening experience in more ways than one.

Haters? Yeah, I hate affiliates who spam continuously, and never have to suffer any consequences. And I'm starting to hate affiliate managers and managers who can take the time to start and post in a six page thread about how sick they are of being "hated", yet they can't take five minutes to post HERE in answer to all this spam. Nor can they be bothered answering PM's or emails in regards to the same issue.

The only ones who made decent posts in that thread are KK...who said that maybe the reason players and affiliates bitch all the time is because there are so many things to bitch ABOUT...so many things wrong with this industry. And Rob, who made a great post just now, basically saying the same thing I said above. So ClubWorld, instead of playing nice with your "moneymakers" over at the GPWA, how about addressing this spam issue that has been ongoing for months now. And how about shutting down the accounts of affiliates who insist on spamming? You know, the same way that casinos shut down player accounts in the blink of an eye, if a player is even "suspected" of any shady behaviour.

Thanks Lots0 for pointing that thread out. Like I said, eye opening (was surprised at a couple of the names/posts) and enough to piss me off for sure.

I think it's getting near time to just close any accounts I have with ClubWorld and any of their affiliated sites. I got more Lucky Red spam the other day....it's obviously not going to end anytime soon.

Hi Pinababy69, I just updated the thread over at GPWA which answers some of your points here, but just to update you here also. Casinomeister is a player forum which I don't have a lot to do with, nor do I have the same permissions that Tom and others have in dealing with player requests and issues through Casinomeister. It would be quicker and more direct to get someone here to deal with player issues who can actually help to get things resolved, this man is Tom. The issue here is that Tom is currently out of the office on annual leave, hence the thread has not been responded to.

I will try keep as close an eye as possible on this forum in Tom's absence and forward on any player issues that may occur.

The thread over at GPWA, as I mentioned on a couple of occasions, was not targetted to this industry but in general (as I also mention above). The idea to start it was to raise some discussion points and also after reading numerous another forums, some of which are more retail based.

If you receive any further spam promoting our brands please let me know about it so that I can do something about it. My email address is martyn@cwcaffiliates.com. I will help out where I can and deal with the situation, if the email is sent then its sent and I cant do anything about that to stop it reaching your inbox, however I can contact the affiliate ask them to remove your email address and also ban them from promoting our brands.

On a side note, I also receive spam from other casino to my work address, one that I havent used to signup at any casino.

[Pinababy69]

Thanks for the reply Martyn. I will keep your email addy handy and forward you anything more that I get. I got one from Lucky Red last week, pretty sure I still have it......I'll dig it up and send it along.

I didn't realize that Tom was on holiday, although I see that I have a PM from him now....it just popped up, I haven't read it as yet.

Maybe while he's away, you could just pop in and see us once a day? Just to keep current on things? I realize you're the affiliate manager and don't deal with player issues per se, but sometimes these things are all sort of tied in together.

I realize that CWC Affiliates are not the worst offenders...thing is, we just expect more from reputable operations than we do of the rogues ie. Virtual, etc. I don't expect to get ANY spam from places like Inetbet, ClubWorld, 32Red and so on. When you've built a good rep for yourselves, sometimes you have to work twice as hard to maintain it. Hope you know what I mean.

[CWC-Martyn]

of course and I agree Pinababy69.

I will be paying more attention in here while Tom is off as will 1 other so your PM maybe from them on the CW login? Unless Tom cant keep away from work!!

But if there is anything that doesnt get answered I may have missed it feel free to PM so I get instant notification.

Keep up the good work all and I hope we can help unclutter your inboxes pretty soon.

[vinylweatherman]

of course and I agree Pinababy69.

I will be paying more attention in here while Tom is off as will 1 other so your PM maybe from them on the CW login? Unless Tom cant keep away from work!!

But if there is anything that doesnt get answered I may have missed it feel free to PM so I get instant notification.

Keep up the good work all and I hope we can help unclutter your inboxes pretty soon.

You say that you cannot know about spam unless it is reported. Fair enough, but try ACKNOWLEDGING reports. I sent some it, and as far as I was concerned I was ignored, and the spam never stopped. I thought "what's the point of taking the time to send a report, nothing gets done about it".

I get a HELL of alot of spam from Communicator Corporation (c-f-1.com), and much of it breaks the law (fake "from" address etc, no unsubscribe link, false B & M address for company supposedly sending it). Funnily enough, Club World LEGITIMATE promotional emails ALSO flag up as from c-f-1.com. WTF is with that

I get spammed for various Club World brands, yet I am "bonus banned" at the flagship Club World casino, and haven't played in months.

All this spam arrives to an email address I have used extensively at casinos, yet an email address published on my website barely receives a thing. I would have expected an email address freely available for harvest would be receiving the most spam by now, yet it is an email address only ever given in confidence that receives nearly all of it.

If it was down to bulk sending to randomly generated addresses, then ALL my email addresses would be receiving the spam. I see evidence of "intelligent design" here, with the email address used for casinos being used BECAUSE it is associated with a person heavily into the online gambling scene, resulting in me receiving TARGETTED, rather than random, casino related spam.


Spam IS a player issue, as it is players that have to sift through all those FAKE "personal invitations to take so and so bonus", to find the few GENUINE offers.

There have been a number of cases where your casinos have tried to take negative action because a player has received an offer through clever spam, such as spoofing "Lauren", and using their first name, yet were not actually on "Lauren's" list. For a time I too was receiving fake offers from Lauren, and these were very cleverly done, stealing some of the content from the Club World genuine promotional mailers, and addressing me by name. I smelled a rat when I found I could not access the correct terms and conditions through the terms and conditions link.

I have received invites to join Lucky Red, they look like personal invites direct from Club World to take a HUGE welcome bonus there, yet I am bonus banned at Club World. It just doesn't make sense.

Players will continue to rant about spam, and the less that is SEEN to get done about it, the LOUDER the rants will become.

[CWC-Martyn]

You say that you cannot know about spam unless it is reported. Fair enough, but try ACKNOWLEDGING reports. I sent some it, and as far as I was concerned I was ignored, and the spam never stopped. I thought "what's the point of taking the time to send a report, nothing gets done about it".

Can you confirm where you sent it and when please, I have not received anything from you with regards to this.

I get a HELL of alot of spam from Communicator Corporation (c-f-1.com), and much of it breaks the law (fake "from" address etc, no unsubscribe link, false B & M address for company supposedly sending it). Funnily enough, Club World LEGITIMATE promotional emails ALSO flag up as from c-f-1.com. WTF is with that

As you say c-f-1.com is the url used for the Communicator brand. They offer a bulk mailing solution which is used, no doubt by many thousands of companies in all kinds of sectors for all kinds of products. As we have also seen, spammers also use this brand and no doubt others in order to get their mails sent.

So in short, Communicator is a commercially available 3rd party product/software that is liceneced by others to make use of their mailing technology.

I get spammed for various Club World brands, yet I am "bonus banned" at the flagship Club World casino, and haven't played in months.

All this spam arrives to an email address I have used extensively at casinos, yet an email address published on my website barely receives a thing. I would have expected an email address freely available for harvest would be receiving the most spam by now, yet it is an email address only ever given in confidence that receives nearly all of it.

Same here, this happens with me also. For the record though, we do not share or sell on any data given to us when a player signs up. In my line of work I get offered databases for all kinds of lists player and affiliate lists, we never take up these offers. Unfortunately there are a few out there that abuse their position and take data for the sole purpose to sell it on or to spam it before selling it on.

There have been a number of cases where your casinos have tried to take negative action because a player has received an offer through clever spam, such as spoofing "Lauren", and using their first name, yet were not actually on "Lauren's" list. For a time I too was receiving fake offers from Lauren, and these were very cleverly done, stealing some of the content from the Club World genuine promotional mailers, and addressing me by name. I smelled a rat when I found I could not access the correct terms and conditions through the terms and conditions link.

I have received invites to join Lucky Red, they look like personal invites direct from Club World to take a HUGE welcome bonus there, yet I am bonus banned at Club World. It just doesn't make sense.

I would love to see these so that I can do something about them. Preferably before pay day if possible.

Players will continue to rant about spam, and the less that is SEEN to get done about it, the LOUDER the rants will become.

[/QUOTE]

If you are referring to US not doing enough about it I would have to disagree with you based on the fact that we are stamping it out - slowly but surely we are getting on top of it. For you its a simple open and shut case, I didnt request it therefore its spam. For us it's a different case entirely, being an affiliate I am sure you realise that. I cant just shut down an affiliate account and refuse earnings based on one or two complaints. It needs to be looked into thoroughly, evidence gathered and collated before any action can be taken.

I did this not to many moons ago with the help of a member here, they received the same email from "us" to a number of their own personal email addresses. Working with this player we figured out who it was and I was able to shut down the aff account after no response from the affiliates contact details. As far as I know this affiliate is no longer operating with us.

The other thing is just because you don't see that things are getting done doesn't mean that the issue is being ignored. Again, I think you know this viewing it from both sides, as a player and having knowledge of how the affiliate side works.

So to conclude, I would like you to mail me the spam you received to martyn at cwcaffiliates.com (I dont want my address harvested now! ) so I can attempt to do something about it. Hopefully YOU and other players will then see that WE ARE doing something about it!

[winbig]

As you say c-f-1.com is the url used for the Communicator brand. They offer a bulk mailing solution which is used, no doubt by many thousands of companies in all kinds of sectors for all kinds of products. As we have also seen, spammers also use this brand and no doubt others in order to get their mails sent.

So in short, Communicator is a commercially available 3rd party product/software that is liceneced by others to make use of their mailing technology.

While this is true, if I had a major online company, I certainly would NOT use this place, nor any other place, that continues to allow spammers to work from their network. The spammers can claim that their lists are double opt-in all they want, but this is certainly not the case.

With the thousands of legitimate 3rd party bulk mailing companies on the 'net today, there are obviously plenty of places to choose from, and therefore no reason for any company to associate with one that allows spammers to operate freely on their network.

Also, freely also means ILLEGALLY, seeing as how they are putting fake information into their mailers, which is a blatant violation of the CAN-SPAM laws.

[CWC-Martyn]

While this is true, if I had a major online company, I certainly would NOT use this place, nor any other place, that continues to allow spammers to work from their network. The spammers can claim that their lists are double opt-in all they want, but this is certainly not the case.

With the thousands of legitimate 3rd party bulk mailing companies on the 'net today, there are obviously plenty of places to choose from, and therefore no reason for any company to associate with one that allows spammers to operate freely on their network.

Also, freely also means ILLEGALLY, seeing as how they are putting fake information into their mailers, which is a blatant violation of the CAN-SPAM laws.

Unfortunately this is something that you should take up with Communicator.