Pokerstars, Absolutepoker, Ub and Fulltilt Seized By Doj

[rainmaker]

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Apparently the fact that three different multi-billion dollar companies and several independent companies that perform services for them have a combined total of ~70 bank accounts is proof enough.

I have around 8 bank accounts myself y (not counting ewallets), and I don't even own any companies. They should throw me in the slammer!

I wrote alleged fraud, laundering and bribery.

This has nothing to do about their accounts. I have 5 bank accounts myself. I just informed you that the authorities had issued restraining orders against more than 75 bank accounts in many different countries, since nobody had mentioned this in the thread. I did not use this information as an argument for them being guilty or not.

[deucebag]

I wrote alleged fraud, laundering and bribery.

This has nothing to do about their accounts. I have 5 bank accounts myself. I just informed you that the authorities had issued restraining orders against more than 75 bank accounts in many different countries, since nobody had mentioned this in the thread. I did not use this information as an argument for them being guilty or not.

Before that you wrote that you saw the charges as good news, and without breaking into a new paragraph wrote about the many bank accounts an messy company structure.

It reads like you think they are guilty as charged. Otherwise you wouldn't be happy about it.

[rainmaker]

Before that you wrote that you saw the charges as good news, and without breaking into a new paragraph wrote about the many bank accounts an messy company structure.

It reads like you think they are guilty as charged. Otherwise you wouldn't be happy about it.

Sorry if you were confused, my fault.

I think it is good news that actions are made ​​against companies in the industry that allegedly do not behave responsible. If certain companies continues to act irresponsibly, then will we all be banned from gambling online at some point.

I am fascinated by the gambling industry, and I love to gamble. I don`t want things like this to happen. But it is probably necessary to create a better, more honest and open industry.

[daveboz]

The United States also filed a civil money laundering and in rem forfeiture complaint (the "Civil Complaint") against the Poker Companies, their assets, and the assets of several payment processors for the Poker Companies.

Is this a 'Heads Up' and something to be concerned about for those using payment processors? Does 'Payment Processors' refer to the likes of MB, Netteller...et al ?

Nate

Edited to Add: As alleged in the Indictment, to accomplish their fraud, the Poker Companies worked with an array of highly compensated "payment processors" – including defendants RYAN LANG, IRA RUBIN, BRADLEY FRANZEN, and CHAD ELIE – who obtained accounts at U. S. banks for the Poker Companies.

Quick Tender has denied my card several times the last few days. However, Bodog refers you to a callling card company (yeah right) to facilitate deposits. Worked fine. Something is up with the Fed bust. These outfits obviously weren't ponying upany juice to US authorities like all the others do (not public of course).

Banks were never fooled they know full well what they 're doing. My bank collects 2% on each transaction on top of what I already paid Quick Tender.

[deucebag]

I think it is good news that actions are made ​​against companies in the industry that allegedly do not behave responsible. If certain companies continues to act irresponsibly, then will we all be banned from gambling online at some point.

I am fascinated by the gambling industry, and I love to gamble. I don`t want things like this to happen. But it is probably necessary to create a better, more honest and open industry.

I think that's naive. If these sites didn't do what they did, they couldn't have accepted any American players. There would be no poker, casino, or other online gambling for Americans.

To me, the far greater wrong in this situation is the government denying people the right to do what they want with their own time and money. The DOJ is using strong-arm tactics to bring down the companies that try to challenge them. The DOJ have only self-serving motivations in doing so.

No online gambling company would be providing their services to Norwegians either, if they were to live by your standards. It is ironic that some of the companies that you approve of do the exact same things as PS/FT/AP/UB. Things that the US DOJ calll "money laundering" and "bank fraud".

Sometimes laws and governments have to be challenged to bring about change. There would be little progess if everyone were to sit on their hands and wait for explicit approval from every government before they did something.

[DiamondGeezer]

If the US Govt are thinking they can legalize and tax poker and online gambling they are making a massive mistake IMO. The lesson many other govts have learned is that the companies and players will always find a way to get together. If you try and tax it there will always be the offshore option or the illegal net poker ring etc etc.

Really the idea that makes them think they can tax it stems from the victorian belief that they think it's a vice rather than any economic argument. I know people have said legalise and tax it but that really is not the answer. Like if you started taxing poker the successful players would be forced offshore and the losing players would find the cost too great.

[rainmaker]

I think that's naive. If these sites didn't do what they did, they couldn't have accepted any American players. There would be no poker, casino, or other online gambling for Americans.

To me, the far greater wrong in this situation is the government denying people the right to do what they want with their own time and money. The DOJ is using strong-arm tactics to bring down the companies that try to challenge them. The DOJ have only self-serving motivations in doing so.

No online gambling company would be providing their services to Norwegians either, if they were to live by your standards. It is ironic that some of the companies that you approve of do the exact same things as PS/FT/AP/UB. Things that the US DOJ calll "money laundering" and "bank fraud".

Sometimes laws and governments have to be challenged to bring about change. There would be little progess if everyone were to sit on their hands and wait for explicit approval from every government before they did something.

First, if it was up to me, then everybody in the world would have the opportunity to gamble online. So I am not defending governments who are prohibiting it.

Secondly, the worlds largest online gambling market is not in the US, it is...you know, in the rest of the world.

Thirdly, it is completely legal for Norwegian players to play online. And it is completely legal for online casinos (overseas) to offer play to people living in Norway. We do not have a single law that prohibits this. Your comparison is not valid.

And finally, casinos who are offering play to players living in countries that prohibits online gambling are driven by greed. I don't care if the gambling site is named 3dice or Pokerstars. It shows a lack of respect for players' safety.

[DiamondGeezer]

Yeah this is what annoys me too. Why whould Ladbrokes the worlds largest gambling company be frozen out of the US when a number of shady two bit offshore hucksters should be allowed to profit?

Lets' be honest the 1996 move was purely about protectionsim. The USA did not like the fact that they were way behind in online gambling and the UK based companies were about to wipe the floor with them.

It is kind of annoying that joker outfits have had the run of the US market when great companies like 32Red, bet365, William Hill and Betsson have all been denied.

[deucebag]

Thirdly, it is completely legal for Norwegian players to play online. And it is completely legal for online casinos (overseas) to offer play to people living in Norway. We do not have a single law that prohibits this. Your comparison is not valid.

And finally, casinos who are offering play to players living in countries that prohibits online gambling are driven by greed. I don't care if the gambling site is named 3dice or Pokerstars. It shows a lack of respect for players' safety.

It's not illegal to gamble online in most states in the US. And the Norwegian government, like the US government, have stated many times that companies offering gambling over the internet do so in violation of Norwegian law. The same goes for many European countries.

There is also a UIGEA-like law in place in Norway, making it illegal for banks to process gambling transactions that are identified as such. Like in the US, the response of many gambling operators has been to use third party processors that miscode transactions.

My comparison is valid.

But we're going off on a tangent, this thread is about poker in the US.

[lots0]

Online Poker is Legal in Washington D.C.

I imagine that people living in our Nations Capital are exempt from the UGIEA... as of a a couple of days ago...

Hmmm.... D.C. went legal just days before this big bust... Hands up if you think this is a coincidence...


And it really gets me that Poker is legal for the politicos in Washington... But not for the rest of us....